A-Bob Research Center: Secret Ballot Proposal (Mideast)
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  A-Bob Research Center: Secret Ballot Proposal (Mideast)
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Poll
Question: Do you generally support efforts to introduce a secret ballot in regional votes and elections?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
#3
Undecided
 
#4
Not a Mideasterner
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 26

Author Topic: A-Bob Research Center: Secret Ballot Proposal (Mideast)  (Read 2651 times)
ZuWo
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« on: June 10, 2013, 07:39:09 AM »

In light of a concrete proposal that is being debated in the Mideast Assembly A-Bob Research Center has decided to conduct a poll among Mideasterners.

This is a poll for Mideasterners and runs for four days.

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TNF
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« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 10:25:52 AM »

What a terribad proposal. I encourage all Mideasterners to vote against this.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 10:27:34 AM »

It'd be fantastic if we could figure out a way to make secret balloting work, but this proposal seems to place an awful lot of trust and responsibility in the hands of the voting booth administrator. If I were a Mideasterner I'd be undecided.

Yeah, secret ballot was always something we discussed back in the RPP/JCP days, when people talked about voter intimidation from others. Ultimately, we couldn't decide who we trusted enough to administer those elections, because literally you are putting someone in the position of as God of Atlasia.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2013, 10:30:03 AM »

I think the administrator should come from outside the region.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 10:41:57 AM »

It'd be fantastic if we could figure out a way to make secret balloting work, but this proposal seems to place an awful lot of trust and responsibility in the hands of the voting booth administrator. If I were a Mideasterner I'd be undecided.

Yeah, secret ballot was always something we discussed back in the RPP/JCP days, when people talked about voter intimidation from others. Ultimately, we couldn't decide who we trusted enough to administer those elections, because literally you are putting someone in the position of as God of Atlasia.

…which is why we have the deputy administrator, who has to be from a different party than the administrator (and the specific implementation makes it extremely unlikely that this will be a Laborite and a Liberal or something like that) and can neither be running for nor actually holding office. I think it's quite safe enough.
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 02:43:09 PM »

A secret ballot is neither desirable nor feasible.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 02:49:36 PM »

I'm not exactly sure a secret ballot is possible in a game like this.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 05:29:47 PM »

I'm not exactly sure a secret ballot is possible in a game like this.
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 08:25:36 PM »

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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 11:12:51 PM »


the legislation has a mechanism that could.  have a look at it, and see what you think.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2013, 10:44:53 AM »

I think the administrator should come from outside the region.

And then we'd have no way to prosecute him/her if he were to do something wrong.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2013, 06:23:43 PM »

I definitely oppose this.
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Sopranos Republican
Matt from VT
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« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2013, 09:14:53 PM »

I'd definitely support this, if say 3 people all from different parties, handled the votes.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2013, 03:36:23 PM »

One more day for this poll!
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2013, 01:56:50 PM »

I voted yes, but I don't know how we would make a secret ballot work.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2013, 12:45:47 PM »

So what were people's reasons for voting against this?  What can the Assembly do to make a better bill that y'all would support?
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2013, 12:52:56 PM »

I'm definitely not voting for anything which doesn't leave any paper trail at all and gives responsibility for counting votes to just 2 people, who could easily fabricate results. The current system works fine, and doesn't stifle turnout. I don't see any reason for implementing this system aside from a power grab, which you basically admitted to earlier.

Why is a secret ballot necessary or desirable?

Apparently a Person wants a permanent Federalist majority. Grin

It's quite evident to me that this move would not have been undertaken by a Federalist Assembly had both hypothetical election administrators would have been from, say, the Labor Party and NM-AM.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2013, 01:01:17 PM »

My post was a joke.  Had I known that people would've actually taken that serious, I wouldn't have posted it.  (I thought the smiley made that pretty clear...).

Please explain to me how 2 people, from different parties, could "easily fabricate results".  If it would make people more comfortable, I would be willing to add on a second DVBA so that we had 3 people counting the ballots, but again, I'm unclear how it would be easy to fabricate results.
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2013, 01:10:28 PM »

My post was a joke.  Had I known that people would've actually taken that serious, I wouldn't have posted it.  (I thought the smiley made that pretty clear...).

Please explain to me how 2 people, from different parties, could "easily fabricate results".  If it would make people more comfortable, I would be willing to add on a second DVBA so that we had 3 people counting the ballots, but again, I'm unclear how it would be easy to fabricate results.

Roll Eyes

Because there's no paper trail. I could just PM the other administrator and offer his party one position (say the governorship) in exchange for positions for my party (say 2 Assembly seats). All this could happen privately through PM w/o anyone ever hearing about it or second guessing the results. We wouldn't be able to verify anything unless we somehow got every voter to produce a copy of their vote from their outbox, which would defeat the purpose of "secret ballots" (assuming everyone actually saved a copy in their messages, which is nigh impossible).

I see no point to this besides to make voting harder. The current public system leaves a distinct paper trail and is much less prone to silly ambiguities and the whims of one or two people. You know perfectly well how this system could be manipulated, so no need to play dumb.

Why do we need a secret ballot anyway? So people can vote against others without fear of retribution or something? What if that person IS the election administrator? This is an internet game, not a pivotal real world election where privacy actually matters in things like this.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2013, 01:13:22 PM »

Yes, the system could be manipulated.  I'm well aware of that.  But I don't see how it could be "easily" manipulated.  In order for the manipulation to occur, one person would have to take a leap of faith and assume that the other VBA wouldn't tell someone about it.  I just don't see people as being remotely likely to take that risk.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2013, 01:49:28 PM »

So what were people's reasons for voting against this?  What can the Assembly do to make a better bill that y'all would support?

Honestly, nothing.  This seems like an unnecessary and generally awful bill, IMO.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2013, 02:38:48 PM »

The last thing this proposal was supposed to be was a Federalist power grab or anything like that. Wink
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
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« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2013, 03:19:32 PM »

So what were people's reasons for voting against this?  What can the Assembly do to make a better bill that y'all would support?

Honestly, nothing.  This seems like an unnecessary and generally awful bill, IMO.

Why?  What specifically is wrong with it?
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2013, 03:22:31 PM »

So what were people's reasons for voting against this?  What can the Assembly do to make a better bill that y'all would support?

Honestly, nothing.  This seems like an unnecessary and generally awful bill, IMO.

Why?  What specifically is wrong with it?

What specifically is wrong with our current system? You've admitted that the potential for manipulation exists with this bill in a way that it does not with the current system, so why are we changing it? This is most certainly a Federalist power-grab, and your weak attempts to defend this bill have only proven as much.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2013, 03:24:22 PM »

So what were people's reasons for voting against this?  What can the Assembly do to make a better bill that y'all would support?

Honestly, nothing.  This seems like an unnecessary and generally awful bill, IMO.

Why?  What specifically is wrong with it?

What specifically is wrong with our current system? You've admitted that the potential for manipulation exists with this bill in a way that it does not with the current system, so why are we changing it? This is most certainly a Federalist power-grab, and your weak attempts to defend this bill have only proven as much.

A Federalist power grab? The bill was a Person's idea ...
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