A-Bob Research Center: Secret Ballot Proposal (Mideast)

[Talleyrand]

So what were people's reasons for voting against this?  What can the Assembly do to make a better bill that y'all would support?

Honestly, nothing.  This seems like an unnecessary and generally awful bill, IMO.

Why?  What specifically is wrong with it?

What specifically is wrong with our current system? You've admitted that the potential for manipulation exists with this bill in a way that it does not with the current system, so why are we changing it? This is most certainly a Federalist power-grab, and your weak attempts to defend this bill have only proven as much.

A Federalist power grab? The bill was a Person's idea ...

Yet it was pushed through by your party and wholeheartedly supported by them. I am 100% certain you would not be doing this had the administrators been Gass and myself for example (when we were in different parties).

I'm still waiting for a good explanation for why this is an improvement over the current system, which you have failed to provide, aside from "now we can have a permanent Federalist majority".

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

So what were people's reasons for voting against this?  What can the Assembly do to make a better bill that y'all would support?

Honestly, nothing.  This seems like an unnecessary and generally awful bill, IMO.

Why?  What specifically is wrong with it?

What specifically is wrong with our current system? You've admitted that the potential for manipulation exists with this bill in a way that it does not with the current system, so why are we changing it? This is most certainly a Federalist power-grab, and your weak attempts to defend this bill have only proven as much.

The way it is right now, it makes strategic voting too easy.

A Federalist power grab?  Lol... it was sponsored by a non-Federalist, and my support for the bill has NOTHING to do with a Federalist being in power.  I'm not short-sighted enough to support a change in voting laws based on who the current Governor is.  It's not like the Federalists will be in the position forever.  I also don't like the characterization of my defense of the bill.  I think I've done a fine job of defending the bill... it's a good bill!  It's game reform that I can get behind, and it was bipartisan.  Where you're getting the idea that this was a Federalist power grab is beyond me.  Was it really because of my joke?  If I was really interested in making a Federalist power grab, do you actually think I'd admit it in the Assembly debate thread?  That's not logical.  You're playing me up to be this evil political mastermind, while at the same time resting your conclusion on the premise that I must be an idiot.

[ZuWo]

A few points:

1. I never said that this proposal would ensure the Federalist Party a permanent majority.

2. It's not true that the proposal is wholeheartedly supported by my party; in fact, several Federalists voted against it (e.g. TJ, A-Bob, Spiral, Bmotley ...)

3. I don't care who the voting booth administrators will be in future elections if this proposal passes. Indeed, I expect that they will count all votes in a fair way. If the proposal gets a majority (unlikely at this point), I will handle the election in a correct, fair and flawless manner.

4. I support the bill because I consider it important in a democracy that voters can cast their ballots in secrecy.

5. Are you insinuating that we in the Federalist Party would try to rig future elections if there was a secret ballot in place? If that's your assumption I must say I am baffled.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

So what were people's reasons for voting against this?  What can the Assembly do to make a better bill that y'all would support?

Honestly, nothing.  This seems like an unnecessary and generally awful bill, IMO.

Why?  What specifically is wrong with it?

What specifically is wrong with our current system? You've admitted that the potential for manipulation exists with this bill in a way that it does not with the current system, so why are we changing it? This is most certainly a Federalist power-grab, and your weak attempts to defend this bill have only proven as much.

A Federalist power grab? The bill was a Person's idea ...

Yet it was pushed through by your party and wholeheartedly supported by them. I am 100% certain you would not be doing this had the administrators been Gass and myself for example (when we were in different parties).

I'm still waiting for a good explanation for why this is an improvement over the current system, which you have failed to provide, aside from "now we can have a permanent Federalist majority".

Wholeheartedly supported by the party... Have you even looked at the voting booth?  What a load of crap... it has bipartisan support, and the Federalists are pretty split on whether to support it or oppose it.

And cut the crap with the "permanent Federalist majority" quote... it was a freaking joke and you know it.  Grow up.

And yes, I would support this if you and Gass were the administrators.  I trust you, Gass, and ZuWo, and I think we have enough checks and balances even if I didn't trust one of you.  If this doesn't pass, I plan on introducing this bill in each session, regardless of who the Governor is.

Are you saying that you think you and Gass are honest, but that ZuWo would cheat?

[Talleyrand]

Lol, now you two are trying to play victim and make it seem as if I accused ZuWo of planning to rig the votes? I never said anything of that sort, so that insinuation is not even worth replying to. I trust all of these people, but I don't trust that this system is safe from manipulation in a way which our current one definitely is, whether it stifles secret voting or not. Public voting has worked in Atlasia for 9 years, and I see no reason to remove it as it ACTUALLY LEAVES A PAPER TRAIL so it can be verified.

In the Assembly, it was, I meant, so it's not a load of crap. And once again, Inks, why don't you actually reply to my question instead of making immature attacks like "grow up"? This bill was defeated by the people (if the current vote holds), yet you have the temerity to reintroduce it session after session because it didn't go your way.

This is not a "democracy". This is an internet game and our current system works fine. There's no reason to change the way we've been doing it for years and years.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Talleyrand, let me ask you this: Do you think the Transition to PR-STV Act was a power grab by TPP?  It seems that you're arguing that any election reform is a power grab by the people who support it.  Explain to me how exactly there's been any type of power grab.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Lol, now you two are trying to play victim and make it seem as if I accused ZuWo of planning to rig the votes? I never said anything of that sort, so that insinuation is not even worth replying to. I trust all of these people, but I don't trust that this system is safe from manipulation in a way which our current one definitely is, whether it stifles secret voting or not. Public voting has worked in Atlasia for 9 years, and I see no reason to remove it as it ACTUALLY LEAVES A PAPER TRAIL so it can be verified.

In the Assembly, it was, I meant, so it's not a load of crap. And once again, Inks, why don't you actually reply to my question instead of making immature attacks like "grow up"? This bill was defeated by the people (if the current vote holds), yet you have the temerity to reintroduce it session after session because it didn't go your way.

This is not a "democracy". This is an internet game and our current system works fine. There's no reason to change the way we've been doing it for years and years.

Your statement "I am 100% certain you would not be doing this had the administrators been Gass and myself for example (when we were in different parties)." makes it seem as if you trust Gass and yourself, but not ZuWo.

I don't know what "In the Assembly, it was, I meant, so it's not a load of crap" means.

I was unaware that you have a question that I haven't answered.  Ask it, and I'll be happy to answer it.

[ZuWo]

Lol, now you two are trying to play victim and make it seem as if I accused ZuWo of planning to rig the votes? I never said anything of that sort, so that insinuation is not even worth replying to. I trust all of these people, but I don't trust that this system is safe from manipulation in a way which our current one definitely is, whether it stifles secret voting or not. Public voting has worked in Atlasia for 9 years, and I see no reason to remove it as it ACTUALLY LEAVES A PAPER TRAIL so it can be verified.

In the Assembly, it was, I meant, so it's not a load of crap. And once again, Inks, why don't you actually reply to my question instead of making immature attacks like "grow up"? This bill was defeated by the people (if the current vote holds), yet you have the temerity to reintroduce it session after session because it didn't go your way.

This is not a "democracy". This is an internet game and our current system works fine. There's no reason to change the way we've been doing it for years and years.

So what did you mean by "Federalist power grab", then? How can an electoral reform which cannot be said to favor a particular political group be a "power grab" unless a certain group is trying to rig the system in its favor?

Yes, this is an internet game. But it's a game which simulates a democracy and which we try to make as real as possible. Voter intimidation has been a serious problem in Atlasia for a long time, and this proposal could prevent that. Also, it's an open secret that many voters may feel some pressure to vote for fellow party members/mates and might vote in a different way under a secret ballot system. That's the value of this proposal.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Talleyrand, let me ask you this: Do you think the Transition to PR-STV Act was a power grab by TPP?  It seems that you're arguing that any election reform is a power grab by the people who support it.  Explain to me how exactly there's been any type of power grab.

He's not saying that and you know it.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Talleyrand, let me ask you this: Do you think the Transition to PR-STV Act was a power grab by TPP?  It seems that you're arguing that any election reform is a power grab by the people who support it.  Explain to me how exactly there's been any type of power grab.

He's not saying that and you know it.

Then how on earth is this a power grab by the Federalists?  I genuinely don't understand where anybody is getting that from.