top 5 conservative, liberal states

[Smash255]

let not just look at how they vote for presdient... look at how they vote within the state.

The way they vote for president is the best indicator of where they fall within the national context.

State parties can be significantly out of step with the national parties.  As an example, most northeastern states right now have Republican governors.  The state Republican parties are much more liberal than the national party, so it's hard to make a comparison on that basis.  There are probably many northeastern Republicans who are more liberal than many southern Democrats.

well what I am talking about is for ex: NC don't have a lotter(howevery yo spell it) but SC does...

It's hard to say.  Politics is very contradictory.  As an example, New York is one of the hardest states in which to get a contested divorce.  Yet it is one of the most liberal states.  Oklahoma I believe, a solid Republican state, has the highest divorce rate.  And the bible belt states of the south have some of the highest rates of illegitimacy and teen pregnancy.

There are many contradictory indicators.

Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate in the country (and has for many years)

[bgwah]

I didn't expect so many people to think of Washington as so liberal.

If the Democrats didn't completely lose Eastern Washington (both of their congressmen used to be democrats, for example)) in the 90s, it would probably be even more liberal!

[Rob]

I didn't expect so many people to think of Washington as so liberal.

If the Democrats didn't completely lose Eastern Washington (both of their congressmen used to be democrats, for example)) in the 90s, it would probably be even more liberal!

Washington isn't that liberal.

[dazzleman]

Washington is like a lot of states, with a huge split between a major urban center and its suburbs (Seattle) and the rest of the state, which is largely rural.

What has changed is that (a) while the cities have generally always voted Democratic, they now vote more overwhelmingly Democratic that before; (b) the suburbs which used to lean Republican now lean more Democratic, though not so much as the cities, usually; and (c) the rural areas, which used to be more mixed, are becoming more and more heavily Republican.

It seems that only the northeast states like Vermont, Maine, etc. have rural areas that are Democratic.  In most of the rest of the country, rural = conservative.

Washington has become more liberal as the trends I mentioned have set in.  But it is not as liberal as northeastern states like New York, Massachusetts, etc. because those states lack real conservative rural areas to the same degree that Washington has.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Rhode Island isn't all that liberal either

[dazzleman]

Rhode Island isn't all that liberal either

Rhode Island is a hard state to figure out.  A while back, I asked why, in 1980, Massachusetts went for Ronald Reagan, while Rhode Island stuck with Jimmy Carter, especially when the 1972 results were reversed.

A poster responded with a well-reasoned post that basically said that Rhode Island had more traditional type Democrats than Massachusetts, who were essentially more Democratic than liberal.

It would be interesting to hear you elaborate on your statement about Rhode Island because it's hard not to consider that state liberal, with its voting record.  Despite its location right next to my state, it's not a state I know well.  I don't think it has many rural areas; it seems mostly urban and suburban.  I've really only driven through it.

[Democratic Hawk]

Which would be the top 5 progressive and top 5 reactionary states?

Dave

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It seems that only the northeast states like Vermont, Maine, etc. have rural areas that are Democratic.  In most of the rest of the country, rural = conservative.

interesting state huh, how we have urban centers scattered all around where all those red boxes are. oh wait, we don't. hmmmm....

[dazzleman]

General statement only. 

I recognize that there are Democratic rural areas in other states.  However, GENERALLY, rural areas are conservative outside the northeast.  I was contrasting Washington state, with its very conservative eastern section akin to Idaho, with states like Vermont, Maine, Massachusetts which have no real conservative strongholds.

[bgwah]

Some of the rural areas in Washington vote Democratic. However, ever since Foley and Inslee lost Eastern Washington in 1994, the East has trended Republican to the point where neither Gregoire or Kerry won a single county out there.

However, in Western Washington, rural King County (I know, King but its still twice as big as Rhode Island!) went for Kerry (but for local races went Republican), the coastal areas went for Kerry (Grays Harbor, Pacific, and Jefferson counties are some of the most loyal democrat counties, although Grays Harbor and to a lesser extent Pacific have been slipping away, but still vote Democrat) although they have a few small towns.

In 1980 gubernatorial race, the last Republican victory, King County went for Spellman (R), while Klickitat and Ferry counties in Eastern Washington voted for Jim McDermott!

The Easts transitition from lean Republican to solid Republican took place sometime in the 90s, but Perot's runs make it hard to tell because he threw a lot of counties to Clinton. Locke also had two landslides and won a number of counties out there. But by 2004 you can see its very Republican now. I'm not sure how they work, are they Populist or Libertarian?

[ian]

A lot of you put VT as your top choice, but they have more registered Republicans than Democrats by 5 points or so.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

LIBERAL (no particular order)
1 Massachusetts - entire state is liberal
2 New York - has NYC, Buffalo, Albany, and even the rural areas
3 California - there is northern CA, but the coast is ultra-liberal
4 Vermont - its like western MA, which is hugely democratic
5 New Jersey - very socially liberal, no truely conserative areas

CONSERVATIVE
1 Utah - religious right ownage
2 Nebraska - all farms, what would you expect
3 Idaho - Utah-lite
4 Alabama - i consider it the most "southern" state in the south
5 Mississippi - 2nd most "southern" state in the south

[phk]

A lot of you put VT as your top choice, but they have more registered Republicans than Democrats by 5 points or so.

Republican =! Conservative

Democrat =! Liberal

Take a look at folks like Zell Miller, Lincoln Chaffee.

[Smash255]

A lot of you put VT as your top choice, but they have more registered Republicans than Democrats by 5 points or so.

Kerry won the state by 20 points, and its also the home state of Bernie Sanders.

[Frodo]

Conservative:

1. Mississippi
2. Utah
3. Idaho
4. Oklahoma
5. Alabama

how is Mississippi more conservative than Alabama when the latter is facing the very real possibility of having former Chief Justice Roy Moore of Ten Commandments fame as their governor?

or is this list in no particular order?

[Alcon]

Conservative:

1. Mississippi
2. Utah
3. Idaho
4. Oklahoma
5. Alabama

how is Mississippi more conservative than Alabama when the latter is facing the very real possibility of having former Chief Justice Roy Moore of Ten Commandments fame as their governor?

or is this list in no particular order?

Mississippi would be just as willing, if not moreso, to elect Roy Moore, had he been a judge in that state.

[Rob]

Conservative:

1. Mississippi
2. Utah
3. Idaho
4. Oklahoma
5. Alabama

how is Mississippi more conservative than Alabama when the latter is facing the very real possibility of having former Chief Justice Roy Moore of Ten Commandments fame as their governor?

or is this list in no particular order?

Mississippi is historically much more extreme then Alabama.

[Frodo]

Conservative:

1. Mississippi
2. Utah
3. Idaho
4. Oklahoma
5. Alabama

how is Mississippi more conservative than Alabama when the latter is facing the very real possibility of having former Chief Justice Roy Moore of Ten Commandments fame as their governor?

or is this list in no particular order?

Mississippi is historically much more extreme then Alabama.

how so?  i have always had the opposite impression that it was Alabama that was the more extreme of the two -slightly.  of course, to all practical purposes, i can't much tell the difference between these two states politically anyway -they seem much the same to my eyes. 

[Rob]

how so?  i have always had the opposite impression that it was Alabama that was the more extreme of the two -slightly.  of course, to all practical purposes, i can't much tell the difference between these two states politically anyway -they seem much the same to my eyes. 

Well, look at the voting history. I'll give a few examples. Strom Thurmond carried it with 87 percent in 1948; he got only 80 percent in Alabama (and he would have probably lost it if Truman had been on the ballot). In 1964, MS voted 87 percent for Goldwater, by far his best showing; he got 69 percent in Alabama. In 1972 and again in 1992, MS was the most Republican state in the nation.

Before that, MS was the most Democratic state in the nation except for South Carolina. There were virtually no Republicans(unlike Alabama, which had Winston County as their GOP bastion). And it's worth noting, Jefferson Davis came from MS, which was the second state to secede.

This is explained by the much higher black population of Mississippi, an outright majority until 1940. More blacks leads to more racism, which leads to more extreme voting patterns.


Whew! Sorry for the long post- but it's a complicated issue.

[Smash255]

how so?  i have always had the opposite impression that it was Alabama that was the more extreme of the two -slightly.  of course, to all practical purposes, i can't much tell the difference between these two states politically anyway -they seem much the same to my eyes. 

Well, look at the voting history. I'll give a few examples. Strom Thurmond carried it with 87 percent in 1948; he got only 80 percent in Alabama (and he would have probably lost it if Truman had been on the ballot). In 1964, MS voted 87 percent for Goldwater, by far his best showing; he got 69 percent in Alabama. In 1972 and again in 1992, MS was the most Republican state in the nation.

Before that, MS was the most Democratic state in the nation except for South Carolina. There were virtually no Republicans(unlike Alabama, which had Winston County as their GOP bastion). And it's worth noting, Jefferson Davis came from MS, which was the second state to secede.

This is explained by the much higher black population of Mississippi, an outright majority until 1940. More blacks leads to more racism, which leads to more extreme voting patterns.


Whew! Sorry for the long post- but it's a complicated issue.

I agree that Mississippi is more conservative than Alabama.  Bush received about 85% of the White vote in Missippi in both 00 & 04, Alabama was in the 75-80& range of the white vote both years

[ian]

A lot of you put VT as your top choice, but they have more registered Republicans than Democrats by 5 points or so.

Kerry won the state by 20 points, and its also the home state of Bernie Sanders.

I am just stating a fact.

[Smash255]

A lot of you put VT as your top choice, but they have more registered Republicans than Democrats by 5 points or so.

Kerry won the state by 20 points, and its also the home state of Bernie Sanders.

I am just stating a fact.

So am I.  Sometimes the traditional Dermocrat and Republican labels don't fit into liberal and Conservative.  Several states in the south have more Democrats, but they are Conservative states.  Several states in the NorthEast have more Republicans, but they are liberal states.  The average Republican in Vermont is probably quite a bit more liberal than the average Democrat in Oklahoma.

[True Democrat]

Liberal:
Vermont
Massachusetts
New York
Rhode Island
Maryland

Conservative (I think the South is more conservative than the west, just not as Republican):
Utah
Alabama
Mississippi
Idaho
Nebraska

[jacob_101]

Conservative:

1. Utah
2. Idaho
3. Texas
4. Oklahoma
5. South Carolina

Liberal:

1. Massachussetts
2. Vermont
3. California
4. Rhode Island
5. Maryland

[Downwinder]

Conservative
2. Utah- It's actually illegal to be gunless some towns

Not true, to my knowledge.  I know it was proposed in some Southern Utah town, but I don't believe it was passed.  Southern Utah is a hotbed for wackjob politics though.  Several towns have passed resolutions for the U.S. to leave the U.N., or even made the U.N. illegal.  There goes U.N. peacekeeping missions in Southern Utah!!