any of you guys curious how underclass behavior develops among

[freepcrusher]

children of well to dos?

My mom's parents probably have a net worth at or approaching the seven digits. Her father was a neurosurgeon until he retired in the late 90s. There were three children in the family, my mom, her sister who is about 18 months older, and a younger brother who is 45 (they adopted him as a baby).

My mom is a dozen years older than her brother so he was a defacto only child. My grandpa also didn't start to really rake in the money until after my mother and her sister were out of the house.

My mom and her sister both were fairly normal. They went to college, graduated, got married, had children and had a job of their own, even as they were raising children. Their son however seemed to stick out like a sore thumb. He graduated from high school in 86 and was sent off to college where he wanted to study to be a pilot. His parents (who are some of the most generous people) gave him a credit card to take with him. He was there for I think a year and got into debt (probably spent in the five digit category), partied too much and got sh**t grades. So he dropped out.

This would have been around 1987 and before I could remember anything (some of this is stuff I've heard from my parents). So he spends most of the late 80s and early 90s living in various Seattle apartments and living off his parents $$$ for rent and what not. One notorious incident (this would have been about 93 or so), he called his parents up telling them his apartment had burned down (they live halfway across the country) and to send him money, which they did. My mom, being the skeptic she was, called up a detective to figure out if it had burned down, and it turned out it didn't. My mom of course didn't tell her parents, not wanting to pour fire on gasoline.

My mom was never particularly close to her brother since she was always out of the house, but  she would sometimes give him a hand like help him budget, or in later years, look after his kids. One famous incident (again recalled from my mom) was around 1988 or so when they were at a relatives wedding. Mom managed to get a hotel room for him and his girlfriend and the next day, the wall had been scribbled upon and my mom had to pay for it.

So in the late 80s and early 90s he was basically an unguided missile living in an apartment, not really working, doing drugs, living off his parents money, and with the occasional girlfriend. Another thing different from his sisters was that he married someone from a much different class. My mom married an accounting controller (my dad) and her sister married a doctor, both of whom from families similar to my mother's. He ended up marrying a waitress who had come from sort of a redneck family (his mother in law was as old as my dad and his wife was from a divorced family). He was married in 95 and decided to move back to Des Moines, possibly to be closer to his parents.

[freepcrusher]

So anyways, He had three kids with her; two daughters (currently 11 and 17) and a fifteen year old son. During that time, he decided to get "serious" about religion, possibly to get some more money from his parents (who are deeply religious). So he started up a travel agency in charge of taking people to various holy sites where the Virgin Mary "allegedly" appeared like in Fatima, Medjugorje, Betania etc. That went on for about a year or so before it went under because he was ripping people off or something.

He also ran a half baked snow plow business (again with his parents $$$) until he got into too much debt and what not. But those odd jobs were really just window dressing/lip service about "getting serious" with a job. His big passion is storm chasing. So throughout his marriage he was always doing that for the most part.

He lived in a townhouse or apartment early on in his marriage, but after his second son was born, they moved into a nice 1250 sq ft ranch home bought by his parents with the condition that he would pay the mortgage. His first wife kicked him out of the house at the end of 2002 (I think he even got a restraining order). It also came out he was a wifebeater. This was pretty difficult for him since he had to start over (when he filed for bankruptcy it was discovered he owed 250K to his parents). He finalized his divorce in 04.

For the rest of the 00s, he calmed down a lot and many of us (me and my parents) had been convinced he had changed and was getting himself under control. Although there were some "red flags" I never thought about at the time. The first is that he always seemed to be pretty transient in both his residence and work wise.

But towards the end of the 00s, it seemed like he was really figuring things out. His standing with the courts had improved (previously he could only see his kids every other week and they could never stay with him, but after that they gave him better custody of his children and they could spend the night with him, since he lives two hours away from his ex-wife, he was even allowed to have his son life with him full time). He also got a job as a part time meteorologist/part time storm chaser type deal.

His relationship between my immediate family (me, my bro and parents) immediately disintegrated when he got married in February 2010 to a woman we had only met once (and he had only known for less than a year) without telling any of us. And the only way we found out about it was on facebook. We would only see him for special occasions from then on (Christmas, Easter etc).

The real boiling point though came in September 2011. My mom visited her father in the hospital because he had a serious blood issue that if left unresolved, would have caused a septic shock (and possible death). He was there at the hospital and for some reason started ranting out of the blue (with the justification that my mother hadn't acknowledged his wife) about how my mom was socially retarded and how she was dead to him. He also used the f word every other sentence (I wasn't there). So my mom then left the hospital (she was petrified), she went home and told my dad about what happened. My dad left a message on his answering machine saying he wanted to talk. After a week (and it was clear he wouldn't respond) he left another message saying that he was not to come near him or his wife ever again. So now for family gatherings, my grandparents have two "shifts" - one with my mom and her sister's family and the other with him and his children.

[freepcrusher]

So I haven't seen him in two years, but I sometimes figure on what he's up to either through his children or from social networking. Apparently, his parents bought him a home with a movie theater in the high 200,000s. He also I think either got fired or quit his job as a meteorologist. His  second wife is a real estate agent so he essentially relied on her for $$$, working whenever he felt like it. From what I know, his second wife left him this past fall (but she hasn't filed for divorce) and some court information (which is public documents) claims he didn't pay child support the past month and that Wells Fargo is in the process of reclaiming his new home.

Here are some of his tweets I've found:
My wife and I (before she left) drive 165 miles to the nearest Five Guys almost every week.  We need a restaurant in (my city) please!!

Gov. Walker receiving death threats after winning again.  Stay classy liberal left!

So let me get this straight; you must prove you have healthcare, but not being a US Citizen? #Stopobamacare

If our economy collapses someday (and it will) I expect we'll see UN Troops assisting police on our soil.  Hope I'm wrong.

Obama wants to turn over our gun rights to the U.N.  Not conspiracy theory...Google it.  #Goodbye Second Ammendment

Let's see if the Obama clan tries to use the DEN tragedy for political gain or to push more gun control. #gunrights #SecondAmendment #Obama

Mitt Romney's 10mil pales in comparison to Queen Michelle's many vacations over the past 4 yrs at taxpayer expense

The First Ammendment is alive and well!  Bravo Chick-Fil-A!

Was the Oak Creek shooting another inside job by the feds to further gun control and convince us to give up more of our rights? Just sayin.

Just watched Romney/Ryan speech in North Carolina.  What a breath of fresh air from the communist rhetoric from the left and Obama!

Have you read the latest about how the libs wana make guns a health hazard and ban them under Obamacare?

I think we need to take it a step further and expose Premiere Obama on a daily basis for who he is:  a communist.

I can tell Martha Raddatz is a Democrat bc she's so damn fugly.

I had always wondered why he is a hardcore GOPer. In theory he should be a democrat. But I guess he considers himself rich since he always tries to look wealthier than he is and to drive the biggest most gas-guzzling car etc. It also seemed like he always looked down upon certain people/groups. For instance, he always liked to make fun of people who shop at walmart and would nickname people he didn't like as Walmart (as a noun). He also was pretty virulently anti illegal immigrant and would talk about how they're sucking off the country and what not and wear bumper stickers on his car that would say: "this is America, speak English" etc. He also said that blacks vote for democrats only because they like free handouts. Big fan of Michael Savage if I recall.

So I've written a lot about my uncle. But one thing I've always wondered is, how does underclass behavior start from families where it was nonexistent? I've always assumed underclass behavior only comes from people who were already raised in underclass households?

[politicus]

Not sure I agree with your premise that this is "underclass behaviour". He sounds more like a classic "spoiled rich kid" with the attitudes that go along with it.

[opebo]

He's a redemption of the moral turpitude and shoddy character of your whole clan I'm afraid, freepcrusher.   As are all black sheep.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

A spoiled brat with enabling parents isn't anything new. 

[memphis]

A spoiled brat with enabling parents isn't anything new. 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Also, not at all uncommon. My brother is also very "needy."

[opebo]

A spoiled brat with enabling parents isn't anything new. 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Also, not at all uncommon. My brother is also very "needy."

But what's the point of bringing someone into the world to be just another miserable toiler?  At least these poor black sheep take an honest look at the life they're being 'given', and admirably reject it rather than sucking it up and saying 'thanks'.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

"Underclass Behaviour?" Oh dear.

Although I will say it is both Hilarious and Predictable that he has the political views he has.

[opebo]

Although I will say it is both Hilarious and Predictable that he has the political views he has.

Really?  The political views astounded me.  Every black sheep I know (and I know many, as all my friends are black sheep) are very left-wing, while their 'rich' families are mostly Republican or rather centrist Dems.

[memphis]

A spoiled brat with enabling parents isn't anything new. 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Also, not at all uncommon. My brother is also very "needy."

But what's the point of bringing someone into the world to be just another miserable toiler?  At least these poor black sheep take an honest look at the life they're being 'given', and admirably reject it rather than sucking it up and saying 'thanks'.

Better to just take endlessly from family? Increasing the toils of those who are trying to help is not admirable. At least Bushie lives rather simply. My brother got my mother to mortgage her home so that he could buy a Mercedes. That doesn't offend you, at all?

[opebo]

But what's the point of bringing someone into the world to be just another miserable toiler?  At least these poor black sheep take an honest look at the life they're being 'given', and admirably reject it rather than sucking it up and saying 'thanks'.

Better to just take endlessly from family? Increasing the toils of those who are trying to help is not admirable. At least Bushie lives rather simply. My brother got my mother to mortgage her home so that he could buy a Mercedes. That doesn't offend you, at all?

No, but keep in mind I consider reproducing a kind of crime.  To inflict this existence on anyone seems to me deserving of harsh punishment or anyway the resentment of the victim.

[Person Man]

I hope this doesn't sound condescending but psychosocial health impairments are a pretty big factor in downward mobility. This is my mother, a reservation school principal, talking.

Another guess is  that he's very conservative because he is trying to socially tread water by pushing the water down.  Like opebo said, many other black sheep are very liberal and that's probably because they take responsibility for their failing (unlike those that are very conservative) but will not take the responsibility for repairing their lives. I think its random how people respond. My ex comes to mind.

[Leftbehind]

lol at "underclass behaviour". Kindly f**k off.

[opebo]

I hope this doesn't sound condescending but psychosocial health impairments are a pretty big factor in downward mobility. This is my mother, a reservation school principal, talking.

But isn't that just a convenient 'medicalization' of rejection of a lifestyle and system that is in fact of dubious desirability?  In other words: if you don't accept the validity of the servile work ethic, you are 'mad'.

[Person Man]

I hope this doesn't sound condescending but psychosocial health impairments are a pretty big factor in downward mobility. This is my mother, a reservation school principal, talking.

But isn't that just a convenient 'medicalization' of rejection of a lifestyle and system that is in fact of dubious desirability?  In other words: if you don't accept the validity of the servile work ethic, you are 'mad'.

Well, it isn't really about that as it is that you live a lot worse than the rest of your family does. There's tons of weirdos that live far better than their folks...but what works? What doesn't work?...regardless of what others think.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Your uncle sounds like my Dad’s younger brother. My Dads brother had the same exact life story (besides being married) and not doing drugs (as far as we know). He was eight years younger than my dad and was eleven younger than my Aunt. Anyway, he told my Grandma and Grandpa around 1997 that they would need to pay him $10,000 to stay in their lives. He took the money and only contacted them every couple of months, despite the fact that he lived one county over. My Grandpa (God rest his soul) passed away soon after. Around 2000, my Grandma bought him a beautiful piece of property along the Intracoastal Waterway that is now worth millions. He still continued to be a dick to her, and when my Grandma sold the property, she continued to fund his life. Around 2003 he finally quit on our family. He made another demand for money (which my mom counted out in bed one night for several hours) before finally cutting of us completely. I myself last talked to him over the phone in 2003. Every letter my Grandma sent was returned unopened, unless he knew it contained a check, in which case he would cash it and decline to respond. He refused to take her phone calls, and when he did pick up, he was horrible to her. His last conversation with my grandmother, which was held in early May, he picked up by saying “You’re still alive!?” I am not kidding. My Grandma died at age 88 on May 10th. He was not invited to the funeral, and I think he was notified a few days after. Needless to say, people like my Uncle Steve (and your Uncle) are the scum of the earth.

[opebo]

Hilarious story, ChairmanSanchez, so, we can conclude that in the family as well, Nice Guys Finish Last!

[freepcrusher]

so an update on my uncle: apparently the past three years his "job" was somebody to buy up flood damaged homes in Cedar Rapids and remodel them. The investment company was under the name of his parents but he was in charge of it. But this managed to be one of his half-baked schemes and apparently they gave him access to a lot of their money. Instead of focusing on remodeling homes, he acted like he was on vacation and was spending most of his time going fishing, camping, hunting, eating out etc. Even went on a cruise twice. Since he drove an SUV (and liked to go tornado chasing) he probably spent a sh-- ton of money on gas too. During these three years, he probably spent well into the six digits.

His parents didn't know a lot about this (although they said he would sometimes come home with a sobstory about why his life sucks and why he needed money). They didn't know until Bob (my grandfather) was using his credit card for something and he was denied. So not only did my uncle f--- up, since his home (also under his parents name) was foreclosed but the bank also threatened to foreclose on my own grandparents home (which is assessed at 466,000). Now my grandparents have a lot of saved up money (where he can't touch it) so they can get themselves out of it (and may finally cut him off).

My parents (who as I said don't talk to him) are horrified especially since their in there mid 80s (and my grandpa has had a series of blood poisoning episodes); that they will be weaker and less resilient to his manipulations. They also worry that the stress of it (mom said my grandpa isn't handling it well) could put him in a grave a lot quicker.