Rank the last 6 Presidents

[barfbag]

Besides, Putin is basically a dictator.

pretty much!

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

1.Clinton
2.Reagan
3.41
4.Obama
5.Carter
6.43

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Tied for First: Clinton and Reagan

Sure, they had scandals, but the scandals were ultimately small beside what they accomplished. While I may not agree with them, and think that both set the stage for more trouble in the future, they both will be reasonably well-recieved by history, and remembered exceedingly favorably by their supporters.

Tied for Second: Carter and George Bush the Elder - very different men, very different presidents, but they share their one-term status. Both had certain accomplishments, but are seen as failed on some key issues. They are remembered fondly, but not as superlative presidents.

Tied for Last: George Bush the Lesser and Obama. Unpopular winners of second terms, mainly due to their oppposition's inability to field a decent candidate. Disappointments to many of their initial supporters. Led the nation down the path of disaster, overreaching where they needed moderation and ignorant and aloof when they needed to lead. History is going to judge these men harshly, and rightfully so.

[anvi]

Could I ask; what standard should we use to rank these presidents--should we rank them according to our own policy preferences, or should we rank them according to our estimation of their overall historical impact?  My rankings would change a bit depending on the answer.

[pbrower2a]

Could I ask; what standard should we use to rank these presidents--should we rank them according to our own policy preferences, or should we rank them according to our estimation of their overall historical impact?  My rankings would change a bit depending on the answer.

Historical influence can be for good or ill. So far Dubya trumps all of the others due to his poor stewardship of the economy, neglect of the terror hazard that related to 9/11, and getting America into two bungled wars... and all for the worse.

[anvi]

Certainly.  But I sometimes like to approach this from the perspective of historical impact long-term.  In my own field, if I were asked to choose who my favorite philosophers of the 20th century were, their names wouldn't be the same as names of the philosophers during the century whose thought at the most wide-ranging influence.  I'm just not sure what the standard for the thread was.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

1. Clinton
2. Obama
3. Carter
4. HW
5. Reagan
6. Bush

[jaichind]

1. Reagan
2. Bush 41
3. Clinton
4. Carter
5. Obama
6. Bush 43

Actually I like some of Bush 43's policies.  But I oppose his foreign policy so much I put him below Obama, someone that I despise. 

[hopper]

1.) Clinton
2.) Reagan
3.) Bush 41
4.) Bush 43
5.) Carter
6.) Obama

[Consciously Unconscious]

Since it's disingenuous to rank Obama among Presidents whose administrations have ended, here is my ranking of the LAST SIX PRESIDENTS

I agree.  While I don't like the job he is doing, it is wrong to judge him before his administration has ended.  For all I know, it could turn out to be great (lol). 

• Reagan
• Bush the First
• Bush the Second
• Clinton
• Ford
• Carter

I'd say Obama would be ranked between Ford and Carter. 

[Cory]

Honestly, Obama is a terrible president: He has absolutely zero leadership skills, noted in his constant "leading from behind" (which is contradictory, to begin with)

"Leading from behind" is not Obama's foreign policy. It is a buzz-phrase used by many on the right to describe it. The USA took the lead on intervention in Libya and has still led the way in the War on Terror.

he gets involved in local issues when he has no place to do so (Henry Gates, Trayvon Martin) - and looks incredibly foolish when he does so

Presidents always weigh in on these "petty/minor" issues. Were you saying the same thing when Bush weighed in on the Terri Shivo case?

he focused on an unpopular health care bill when the nation was crying for jobs, said health care bill is already turning out to be a disaster (and it's not even fully implemented yet)

Weather you like it or not, health care costs are a major issue in the American economy and if anything universal coverage is even more important considering the state of the economy. Also you can't just "make jobs".

his stimulus and QE initiatives were ultimately failures

Patently false.

he goes on lavish vacations and plays golf (which I'm ok with, but I'm not ok with the double standard when comparing that to Bush - whom, by the way, stopped golfing once we went to war as he said that he found it to be disrespectful)

This is mostly a myth. Most of what right-wing blogs lament as "vacations" are diplomatic trips (India, Africa recently) and these blogs often bullsh**t about the actual cost.

Also, Bush didn't stop golfing after 9/11.

he's now engulfed in several scandals - the Benghazi one especially showcasing how inept, incompetent, and shady he and his cabinet really are.

*facepalm*

We've been over this a thousand times. Obama did everything within his power to assist the Consulate personnel and the quick-reaction force came in defeated the attackers.

[Lurker]

I'm surprised at all the low placements for Ronnie. Is there any reason for that? He's renowned for being the best contemporary president by experts and the general public alike.

You should have gotten used to being surprised after november, where your all-too-certain predictions failed horribly. Getting more of your news from sources that do not agree with your ideology might help you better understand how some of your countrymen can dislike Reagan.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

1. Ronald Reagan
2. Bill Clinton
3. George H.W. Bush
4. Gerald R. Ford
5. George W. Bush
6. James Earl Carter

Something around this, I guess. In terms of political success, impact on the political system, international significance, and so on, Reagan and Clinton are undoubtedly the greatest.

[Marokai Backbeat]

1. Barack Obama.
*Obama is pretty much in the top spot by default. Though not all around amazing, and despite the fact that, when you remove the first two years of his term, there hasn't been a whole lot that's been getting done, the first two years of his term were about as accomplished and impressive as one can hope for in two years in the modern era of American politics. This list, and more that isn't even included in it, shepherding in a new era of gay rights attitudes, as well as arguably having the smartest and most effective foreign policy so far of this entire list, is impossible to just disregard.

2. Bill Clinton.
*Bill Clinton was a very very lucky man. By that I mean, that the fact that his entire Presidency wasn't completely gobbled up by scandal and half-competence is probably a sign that God votes Democratic. While Nix in another thread described Clinton's first two years as "disastrous" (and he is right) they are also probably the years I like most about Clinton's two terms as President, because otherwise, he was a barely moderating force on an extraordinarily right-wing legislature and frequently caved to being a spineless political chameleon who was quite clearly out of his depth. While in later years he has earned some sort of "Centrist Hero" image, he absolutely doesn't deserve it, and showed basically no courage whatsoever for most of his term. While people like Napoleon lionize him the same way Snowstalker waxes nostalgic for a pre-Giuliani New York City in a sort of "isn't it so cool how Clinton was an adulterous douchebag, bro?" Clinton was no one to admire.

So why do I give him the second spot? Because while he was a political manueverer, he was at least a halfway decent one, and kept the Republicans at bay for his two terms as President, had at least a mostly-competent foreign policy, could nudge certain things in a slightly better direction even if he was too much of a wimp to be bold after Hillarycare blew up in his face, and improved America's image around the world. Somehow. He's lucky the internet bubble came and went when it did. The biggest thing that carries him, though? He raised taxes. A lot. And it did our finances quite a bit of good. That's one thing he has over Obama, at least.

3. Jimmy Carter.
*Jimmy Carter is probably the best person to have ever been President, and the fact that he got elected at all is probably more due to a series of happy accidents and Nixonian scandals than anything he did himself. Nevertheless, I don't think there is any other simply good and honest man in the entire line of American Presidents that matches him.

It's easy for the Right to say "worst president ever, lol" and the Left to be reactionary in response and say "No, actually, one of the BEST Presidents ever! In your face!" The reality is that as a President, his accomplishments were quite mediocre, and in terms of that alone, he falls somewhere in the middle. Still though, Carter's Presidency marks a turning point in American politics. The President got on national television and told America that they needed to reign in their consumerism and consider sacrificing for the common good. It was bold, it cut to the heart of a serious issue that we are facing the repercussions of today, and it probably lost him the job. When faced with that speech, America chose Ronnie Raygun instead. It's a shame.

4. George H. W. Bush.
*I genuinely believe that George H. W. Bush was, at the time, trying to be a reasonable and sane Republican in a time where that party was transitioning into the unreasonable and insane group of folks it is today. As a President, he wasn't entirely awful, and at least tried to maintain a sense of respectability and an ability to change his mind based on changing circumstances that the Republicans of today have long since abandoned. When faced with the reality of our finances, he raised taxes, even if he didn't want to do it. When the NRA was in the early stages of their gun fetishism, Bush 41 decided, to hell with them, he was very publicly resigning his NRA membership and lecturing to stop being such jerkasses.

That all being said, though, he was a pandering and out of touch snob. "Elitist" probably applies to him more than anyone on this list. He picked one of the worst Vice Presidents in recent memory just to bolster his right-wing bona fides, he was clearly completely detached from any sense of the economy as it was for the average individual moreso than most on this list, and his campaign varied from scummy in 1988 to lazy in 1992. That still, at least, gets him better than the rest of the Republicans on this list.

5. Ronald Reagan.
*Reagan not being last on this list? Shock! Scandal! Eh, the truth is, Reagan is probably more damaging in the abstract than he was in the specific. Well, at least equally damaging in the abstract as he was in the specific. He was, no doubt, a terrible President, with a repulsive worldview, a foreign policy that was as show-y as it was dangerous (and in the case of Iran-Contra, impeachment worthy), but Reagan was a puppet. He wasn't the evil mastermind.

His policies were extraordinarily damaging, and his view of society was practically evil. (His response to the AIDs epidemic, especially so.) But even so, the myth of his policies has been more damaging since his Presidency than he was in his Presidency, birthing the "welfare queen" talking points as mainstream, the modern Christian Right, and the cult of tax cuts, as well as ballooning our debt while maintaining the nonsense idea that it was somehow not his fault. Worst of all, his election was the turning point toward obsessive consumerism and materialism that Carter railed against as President and that has rotted American society, and slowly, the rest of the world's. Thanks a lot.

6. George W. Bush.
*Bush deserves the last spot on here for being the most directly damaging Presidents on this list, as well as having the unbelievable skill of being able to f**k up damn near everything he attempted or did.

9/11? He ignored all reports and threats of terrorism before it happened. Bin Laden? Couldn't get him. (Thanks Obama!) Tax cuts? Were so wasteful and unstimulative that he did them twice. Medicare Part D is one of the most incredible stories of legislative clusterf**kery that you could ever read, and was a total mess to boot. The PATRIOT Act. No Child Left Behind? Plenty, actually. Afghanistan? Mismanaged. Iraq? A lie from the very beginning. All told, his middle eastern excursions will cost us trillions of dollars that we could've used for anything else. His first veto? Killing a stem cell research bill.

Illegal wiretapping. Torture. Rendition. Sold his plan to privatize Social Security to the public so hilariously badly that it was abandoned within weeks. Completely lied about his promise to reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban. Riddled mining and oil drilling regulations with loopholes for his industry friends and raised a middle finger to every environmental cause he came across. Neutered FEMA due to a lack of any interest in qualified governing, and New Orleans paid the price. Wanted to appoint Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court, for Christ's sake. Vetoed a children's health insurance program expansion bill that was fully paid for. Ruined America's image abroad and made us the laughing stock of the first world. This is just the stuff off the top of my head.

In addition to all of that, his term ended with the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression, the damage of which will be felt for generations. Everyone who acts like we can't treat Bush like a terrible President because he's too recent and we're biased? Screw you. George W. Bush is one of the worst Presidents in the history of the United States. End of story.

[Gass3268]

1. Barack Obama.
*Obama is pretty much in the top spot by default. Though not all around amazing, and despite the fact that, when you remove the first two years of his term, there hasn't been a whole lot that's been getting done, the first two years of his term were about as accomplished and impressive as one can hope for in two years in the modern era of American politics. This list, and more that isn't even included in it, shepherding in a new era of gay rights attitudes, as well as arguably having the smartest and most effective foreign policy so far of this entire list, is impossible to just disregard.

2. Bill Clinton.
*Bill Clinton was a very very lucky man. By that I mean, that the fact that his entire Presidency wasn't completely gobbled up by scandal and half-competence is probably a sign that God votes Democratic. While Nix in another thread described Clinton's first two years as "disastrous" (and he is right) they are also probably the years I like most about Clinton's two terms as President, because otherwise, he was a barely moderating force on an extraordinarily right-wing legislature and frequently caved to being a spineless political chameleon who was quite clearly out of his depth. While in later years he has earned some sort of "Centrist Hero" image, he absolutely doesn't deserve it, and showed basically no courage whatsoever for most of his term. While people like Napoleon lionize him the same way Snowstalker waxes nostalgic for a pre-Giuliani New York City in a sort of "isn't it so cool how Clinton was an adulterous douchebag, bro?" Clinton was no one to admire.

So why do I give him the second spot? Because while he was a political manueverer, he was at least a halfway decent one, and kept the Republicans at bay for his two terms as President, had at least a mostly-competent foreign policy, could nudge certain things in a slightly better direction even if he was too much of a wimp to be bold after Hillarycare blew up in his face, and improved America's image around the world. Somehow. He's lucky the internet bubble came and went when it did. The biggest thing that carries him, though? He raised taxes. A lot. And it did our finances quite a bit of good. That's one thing he has over Obama, at least.

3. Jimmy Carter.
*Jimmy Carter is probably the best person to have ever been President, and the fact that he got elected at all is probably more due to a series of happy accidents and Nixonian scandals than anything he did himself. Nevertheless, I don't think there is any other simply good and honest man in the entire line of American Presidents that matches him.

It's easy for the Right to say "worst president ever, lol" and the Left to be reactionary in response and say "No, actually, one of the BEST Presidents ever! In your face!" The reality is that as a President, his accomplishments were quite mediocre, and in terms of that alone, he falls somewhere in the middle. Still though, Carter's Presidency marks a turning point in American politics. The President got on national television and told America that they needed to reign in their consumerism and consider sacrificing for the common good. It was bold, it cut to the heart of a serious issue that we are facing the repercussions of today, and it probably lost him the job. When faced with that speech, America chose Ronnie Raygun instead. It's a shame.

4. George H. W. Bush.
*I genuinely believe that George H. W. Bush was, at the time, trying to be a reasonable and sane Republican in a time where that party was transitioning into the unreasonable and insane group of folks it is today. As a President, he wasn't entirely awful, and at least tried to maintain a sense of respectability and an ability to change his mind based on changing circumstances that the Republicans of today have long since abandoned. When faced with the reality of our finances, he raised taxes, even if he didn't want to do it. When the NRA was in the early stages of their gun fetishism, Bush 41 decided, to hell with them, he was very publicly resigning his NRA membership and lecturing to stop being such jerkasses.

That all being said, though, he was a pandering and out of touch snob. "Elitist" probably applies to him more than anyone on this list. He picked one of the worst Vice Presidents in recent memory just to bolster his right-wing bona fides, he was clearly completely detached from any sense of the economy as it was for the average individual moreso than most on this list, and his campaign varied from scummy in 1988 to lazy in 1992. That still, at least, gets him better than the rest of the Republicans on this list.

5. Ronald Reagan.
*Reagan not being last on this list? Shock! Scandal! Eh, the truth is, Reagan is probably more damaging in the abstract than he was in the specific. Well, at least equally damaging in the abstract as he was in the specific. He was, no doubt, a terrible President, with a repulsive worldview, a foreign policy that was as show-y as it was dangerous (and in the case of Iran-Contra, impeachment worthy), but Reagan was a puppet. He wasn't the evil mastermind.

His policies were extraordinarily damaging, and his view of society was practically evil. (His response to the AIDs epidemic, especially so.) But even so, the myth of his policies has been more damaging since his Presidency than he was in his Presidency, birthing the "welfare queen" talking points as mainstream, the modern Christian Right, and the cult of tax cuts, as well as ballooning our debt while maintaining the nonsense idea that it was somehow not his fault. Worst of all, his election was the turning point toward obsessive consumerism and materialism that Carter railed against as President and that has rotted American society, and slowly, the rest of the world's. Thanks a lot.

6. George W. Bush.
*Bush deserves the last spot on here for being the most directly damaging Presidents on this list, as well as having the unbelievable skill of being able to f**k up damn near everything he attempted or did.

9/11? He ignored all reports and threats of terrorism before it happened. Bin Laden? Couldn't get him. (Thanks Obama!) Tax cuts? Were so wasteful and unstimulative that he did them twice. Medicare Part D is one of the most incredible stories of legislative clusterf**kery that you could ever read, and was a total mess to boot. The PATRIOT Act. No Child Left Behind? Plenty, actually. Afghanistan? Mismanaged. Iraq? A lie from the very beginning. All told, his middle eastern excursions will cost us trillions of dollars that we could've used for anything else. His first veto? Killing a stem cell research bill.

Illegal wiretapping. Torture. Rendition. Sold his plan to privatize Social Security to the public so hilariously badly that it was abandoned within weeks. Completely lied about his promise to reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban. Riddled mining and oil drilling regulations with loopholes for his industry friends and raised a middle finger to every environmental cause he came across. Neutered FEMA due to a lack of any interest in qualified governing, and New Orleans paid the price. Wanted to appoint Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court, for Christ's sake. Vetoed a children's health insurance program expansion bill that was fully paid for. Ruined America's image abroad and made us the laughing stock of the first world. This is just the stuff off the top of my head.

In addition to all of that, his term ended with the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression, the damage of which will be felt for generations. Everyone who acts like we can't treat Bush like a terrible President because he's too recent and we're biased? Screw you. George W. Bush is one of the worst Presidents in the history of the United States. End of story.

This is amazing and I agree 100% on it!

[Enderman]

Hackish list:   Realistic list

1) Reagan     1) Reagan

2) HW Bush   2) HW Bush   

3) Ford          3) W Bush

4) Clinton       4) Ford

5) W Bush      5) Clinton

6) Carter        6) Carter

[WalterMitty]

1. clinton
2. hw bush
3. w. bush
4. obama
5. reagan
6. carter

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

1. reagan
2. clinton
3. hw bush
4. w. bush
5. Obama
6. carter

[Torie]

1. reagan
2. clinton
3. hw bush
4. w. bush
5. Obama
6. carter

Well we seem to agree on this one old man.

[anvi]

Not saying Obama is a good president--I'm certainly not satisfied with him.  But worse than Bush 43?  Just no.

[MATTROSE94]

1. Ronald Reagan
2. Barack Obama
3. Bill Clinton
4.George H.W. Bush
5. Jimmy Carter
6. George W. Bush

[Torie]

Not saying Obama is a good president--I'm certainly not satisfied with him.  But worse than Bush 43?  Just no.

Yes, I am down on Obama. He is just performing so far below his potential, and that annoys me. He had that perfect niche in life to do so much good, and it's all going down the drain. Sad.

[anvi]

I don't disagree with that sentiment, Torie.  And there were a number of things Bush did as president that I approve of.  But, the way I look at it, even if one is comparing worst mistakes, Bush got us involved in a very drawn-out war on initially very dubious and ultimately false grounds, while Obama presided over an ultimately bad scheme intended to insure more people, and hasn't made good budget deals.  I prefer the latter failings to the former. 

[Torie]

I don't disagree with that sentiment, Torie.  And there were a number of things Bush did as president that I approve of.  But, the way I look at it, even if one is comparing worst mistakes, Bush got us involved in a very drawn-out war on initially very dubious and ultimately false grounds, while Obama presided over an ultimately bad scheme intended to insure more people, and hasn't made good budget deals.  I prefer the latter failings to the former. 

Which is certainly a reasonable balancing of the plusses and minuses of course. I am just a bit too angry with Obama right now to be as objective as I should be perhaps.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

1. reagan
2. clinton
3. hw bush
4. w. bush
5. Obama
6. carter

Yep. This is my list. I love Dubya, and while I don't agree with a lot of the war policies he used, I think a lot of the problems that occurred under his watch were out of his control and would have occurred regardless of who was President (see Obama's NSA crap now/financial crisis, etc).

I am no fan of Obama for sure. I think we are recovering in spite of him as opposed to because of him. His meddling in other things that he shouldn't, like the Zimmerman trial, etc, is just icing on the cake. The wiretapping while publicly railing against it, etc, embodies the "will say anything to get elected" politician. At least with Dubya, he would say what he wanted and didn't care about public opinion.