Lebanon

[ATFFL]

The Syrian puppet government in Lebanon has called it quits and may be looking at free elections in the near future.

Is this going to be the end of Syrian control of Lebanon through mostly peaceful means, or is Syria hoping that the unrest passes and  they can keep things going when things calm down?

[Lunar]

I'm reading From Beirut to Jerusalem right now, pretty powerful stuff on Lebanon.

As long as Syria has its hand in Lebanese affairs, they will remain blatantly corrupt and nothing will be solved.  Syria will try its hardest to remain a presence and will likely succeed without some damn strong political pressure.

[dazzleman]

I don't trust those Syrian bastards as far as I could throw them.

The pressure needs to be kept up on them to leave Lebanon.  The sad part of it all, little recognized, is that the United States gave tacit approval to the original Syrian occupation on Lebanon in 1976.  We were in a weak position post-Vietnam and there was no stomach to oppose it then, plus it was thought they might help bring order in the midst of the civil war that had just started.

The Lebanese people are the best force to get the Syrians out.  They should be encouraged to continue their demonstrations and demands that the Syrians leave, and the Syrians need to be put on notice that any repression of these people will lead to the most severe consequences.

[Lunar]

If Syria won't bow down to pressure, I'd think it'd be fun to threaten to seriously arm the anti-Syria Shiite and Christian militias.  That would make the pro-Syrian militias scared to hell (not to mention the Syrians), they'd then proceed to dump their own pressure on Syria to get the hell out.

You have to understand the politics there.  Everyone wants control.

The problem with actually arming the anti-Syrian militias is that they would end up slaughtering each other and thousands of civilians.

[ATFFL]

Thing is Al-Jazeera has turned on Syria.  They are running heavy coverage of the celebrations that took place after the resignations.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

And they called him Shrub.

[ThePrezMex]

What has been going on in Lebanon is awesome. I'm pretty excited by it.
This has to be one of the first occassions where people really take the streets in a middle east country. I hope this keeps going.
The events in Lebanon, plus the 'timid' attempt to open up the political process in Egypt are very positive signs.
Of course, this being the middle east, we need to be very cautious. And unfortunately I think that things will still go back before further positive developments come. But, it's a start and really hope some progress is made.
This is a good sign that the Syrian regime has less support than what they may believe.

[Erc]

In a way, you have to feel sorry for NixonNow--talk about a bad month.

Everyone blames Hariri's assassination on you.

You lose the support of the French [and when that happens, you know you're doomed].

You lose your puppet government in Lebanon.

Kofi says to you:  get out by Tax Day, or suffer the consequences.

It's revealed that it's actually you who may be the biggest obstacle to the Palestinian peace process, because you're aiding and abetting Palestinian terrorists and their suicide operations in the midst of the ceasefire.

It's revealed, after the capture of Saddam's brother-in-law, that Syria's been harboring Baathists and protecting leaders of the insurgency in Iraq.


Ouch...

[Lunar]

It's revealed, after the capture of Saddam's brother-in-law, that Syria's been harboring Baathists and protecting leaders of the insurgency in Iraq.

To be fair, NixonNow is a Baathist himself (one party Baathist state in Syria).

[Erc]

Yeah, but that doesn't make it any less condonable.

If they were just sitting there, that's one thing.  But if they're actively trying to go back into Iraq, coordinating the insurgency in Al-Anbar...then, for Syria, that's tantamount to supporting the insurgency itself.

[Silent Hunter]

Ukraine, Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon.

In four months, four major changes in the world towards democracy and peace. I wonder if 2004-5 is the new 1989-91.

[opebo]

Ukraine, Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon.

In four months, four major changes in the world towards democracy and peace. I wonder if 2004-5 is the new 1989-91.

Getting ahead of ourselves a bit I think:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&e=3&u=/nm/20050228/ts_nm/iraq_dc_470

[minionofmidas]

Is this going to be the end of Syrian control of Lebanon through mostly peaceful means, or is Syria hoping that the unrest passes and  they can keep things going when things calm down?

Not necessarily a contradiction.

(Read Tredrick's post carefully if you don't see what I mean.)

I'm very cautiously optimistic as of right now.

[M]

Ukraine, Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon.

In four months, four major changes in the world towards democracy and peace. I wonder if 2004-5 is the new 1989-91.

Plus Afghanistan. I, too, wonder if you're right. And although all of this is stuff I've been hoping for and expecting for 4 years (and since 2003 on this forum, if you care to look through my old posts), the remarkable speed of democratic revolution has amazed me. Oh, and watcg Moldova on Sunday.

As to al-Lubnan, Brandeis's Arabic teacher, a Maronite, is jumping for joy; Fouad Ajami is seeing his dream advanced in is homeland; Amin Gemayel and Michael Aoun are back in politics; and the Druze have finally joined with their natural allies against the forces of darkness. So let's think big. Bashar NixonNow illegitimately occupies a second Arab country to Lebanon's west, and there's plenty of discontent too. With the rise of democratic Shi'ism, the progressive Iranian populace is more restive than ever. And perhaps we may wish to review the clause in the Libyan devil's bargain that denies them democracy. Things are happening in Araby, very, very quickly.

In the words of our president: "Freedom is not America's gift to the world. Freedom is G-d's gift to humankind."

[angus]

And they called him Shrub.

Been reading too much Molly Ivins.

[angus]

Thing is Al-Jazeera has turned on Syria.  They are running heavy coverage of the celebrations that took place after the resignations.

Al Jazeera gets lots of grief.  The Arabians and Qatari say they're too pro-western biased, the Americans say they're too pro-Arab biased?  WTF is "pro-western" or "pro-arab" anyway?  Harbus calls it "The World's Most Controversial TV Station"  They were banned from the NYSE and later from reporting in Iraq.  One of their correspondents was accused of being a Taliban spy.  Hell, they fired al-Ali to placate the West, then the Near East turned on them.  Seems they can't get a break.  Now Qatar is under intense American pressure to sell Al Jazeera television.  As if it's any of Dick Cheney's business.  I think that guy is in a tough position, and I respect what he's trying to do, which is just giving news coverage, some commentary, and a whole lot of sensationalism.  (not unlike what our own newsmedia do.)

[opebo]

Al Jazeera gets lots of grief.  The Arabians and Qatari say they're too pro-western biased, the Americans say they're too pro-Arab biased?  WTF is "pro-western"

Secular.

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Arab/Muslim 'nationalism' - Al Jazeera is an organ of this type of jingoistic patriotism just like FOX news is an organ of American jingoism.

[Angel of Death]

Are you guys also supporting giving back the Golan Heights to Syria? Let's see you supporting Arab democracy even if it hurts Israel's interests.

[J.R. Brown]

That's great! I hope Lebanon is successful in bringing about a democratic government in their country that is independent from the influence of Syria.

[ATFFL]

Are you guys also supporting giving back the Golan Heights to Syria? Let's see you supporting Arab democracy even if it hurts Israel's interests.

If Syria actually became a democracy, agreed to keep the area demilitarized and changed its policy to destroy Israel I would support the return of the Golan heights.

[M]

Are you guys also supporting giving back the Golan Heights to Syria? Let's see you supporting Arab democracy even if it hurts Israel's interests.

Were you raped by a Lebanese as a child? Otherwise I don't understand your loathing of them, and opposition to their patriotic truggle for freedom.

Now the Golan is approximately 50% Jewish and 50% Druze, so in a popular vote it would almost certainly elect to remain Israeli, if you want to be strictly democratic. But as a matter of fact, I support an Israeli return of at least part and perhaps even all of the Golan (though not Galilee water rights) even before a republican government appears in Damascus. However, they must first fully exit Lebanon and cease their support for terrorism.

[Angel of Death]

You're a real piece of work, M; your deliberate disingenuous way of discussing never ceases to amaze me.

Were you raped by a Lebanese as a child? Otherwise I don't understand your loathing of them, and opposition to their patriotic truggle for freedom.

Nice straw man, reminds me how opposers of the Iraq war were supposedly all Saddam lovers. Remember the Lebanese Civil War, Sabra & Shatilla, Qana? Were you also against the suffering of civilians in Lebanon THEN even if that meant it would put you against the actions of Israel? Perhaps not if they were Palestinians...

And now Syria is the bad guy, but I never heard as much as a squeak from you guys when the U.S. OUTSOURCED THE TORTURE of a Canadian national to Syria for "information extraction" when they were still the ally in the "War on Terror". Of course not, because that would put the U.S. in a bad light!

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Convenient of you to omit those people who fled the area during the war. Oh, and non-Islamic Arabs are NOT en masse pro-Israel as the corporation-controlled media might lead you to believe.

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Of course you don't, because the Jews deserve the water more, just like all those West Bank settlers, right? What happened to following UN Security Council Resolutions, the failure of which SUPPOSEDLY led to Saddam's downfall?

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I doubt if you were as insistent as well for an Israeli withdrawal when they still occupied parts of Lebanon. Of course, NOW that would be easy for you to say.

STOP HIJACKING OTHER PEOPLE'S CAUSES FOR YOUR OWN NEOCONSERVATIVE INTERESTS!

[M]

You're a real piece of work, M; your deliberate disingenuous way of discussing never ceases to amaze me.

Were you raped by a Lebanese as a child? Otherwise I don't understand your loathing of them, and opposition to their patriotic truggle for freedom.

Nice straw man, reminds me how opposers of the Iraq war were supposedly all Saddam lovers. Remember the Lebanese Civil War, Sabra & Shatilla, Qana? Were you also against the suffering of civilians in Lebanon THEN even if that meant it would put you against the actions of Israel? Perhaps not if they were Palestinians...

And now Syria is the bad guy, but I never heard as much as a squeak from you guys when the U.S. OUTSOURCED THE TORTURE of a Canadian national to Syria for "information extraction" when they were still the ally in the "War on Terror". Of course not, because that would put the U.S. in a bad light!

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Convenient of you to omit those people who fled the area during the war. Oh, and non-Islamic Arabs are NOT en masse pro-Israel as the corporation-controlled media might lead you to believe.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Of course you don't, because the Jews deserve the water more, just like all those West Bank settlers, right? What happened to following UN Security Council Resolutions, the failure of which SUPPOSEDLY led to Saddam's downfall?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I doubt if you were as insistent as well for an Israeli withdrawal when they still occupied parts of Lebanon. Of course, NOW that would be easy for you to say.

STOP HIJACKING OTHER PEOPLE'S CAUSES FOR YOUR OWN NEOCONSERVATIVE INTERESTS!

My race controls capitalism and communism, and has for year. The Aryan's last chance of stopping our rise to power was fascism. However, with it's fall we have invented neoconservatism, which will eventually lead to our total world domination.

Both the Galilee water ant the Lebanese Druzes' babies blood are necessary for the baking of our holy bread, the matzoh. Your opposition to our posession of the materials for baking matzoh is an attempt to end our religious freedom, and delay the coming of the Messiah.

And of course, the little Arabs fighting each other will only speed up our rise to total domination. He he ha ha haw!

Happy?