Supreme Court bans juvenile executions

[David S]

How is it that the death penalty is "cruel and unusual punishment" for a 17 year old but not for an 18 year old?

[Lunar]

How is it that the death penalty is "cruel and unusual punishment" for a 17 year old but not for an 18 year old?

In my humble opinion because a 17 year old is not legally considered a responsible member of society while an 18 year old is.

[David S]

How is it that the death penalty is "cruel and unusual punishment" for a 17 year old but not for an 18 year old?

In my humble opinion because a 17 year old is not legally considered a responsible member of society while an 18 year old is.

Does the question of whether a punishment is "cruel and unusual" depend on who its applied to? Is it cruel for one person but not for another?

[Lunar]

How is it that the death penalty is "cruel and unusual punishment" for a 17 year old but not for an 18 year old?

In my humble opinion because a 17 year old is not legally considered a responsible member of society while an 18 year old is.

Does the question of whether a punishment is "cruel and unusual" depend on who its applied to? Is it cruel for one person but not for another?

Sure.  Many of the things that were done in Abu Graib would not bother us in America the least, but would certainly be defined as cruel and unusual to the individuals involved.

In order to make this ruling though, one probably has to define "cruel and unusual," which might or might not include that legal distinction I made above between 18 year olds and 17 year olds.

[Smash255]

17 & 18 year olds aren't viewed the same in the eyes of the law.  That means certan punishments shouldn't apply for 17 year olkds that can apply for 18 year old's (although I don't thjink it should be for 18 year olds either),  I do think those already convicted & given the death sentance should get life without parole

[??????????]

What a horrible decision by the court. This country is going into the crapper and fast. It won't be long before cops and normal Americans will have to resort to street justice to punish criminals. Sadly I hope that day will come sooner rather then later.

[Shira]

Countries that abolished the death penalty:
Canada, Australia, Israel, UK , Germany and the rest of Europe.
The death penalty still exists in: Uganda, Zair, Syria, Egypt, Chaina, Burma, Pakistan, Sudan and the US.

[??????????]

Countries that abolished the death penalty:
Canada, Australia, Israel, UK , Germany and the rest of Europe.
The death penalty still exists in: Uganda, Zair, Syria, Egypt, Chaina, Burma, Pakistan, Sudan and the US.

Good for them. Glad to see they dont believe in justice.

[Akno21]

Countries that abolished the death penalty:
Canada, Australia, Israel, UK , Germany and the rest of Europe.
The death penalty still exists in: Uganda, Zair, Syria, Egypt, Chaina, Burma, Pakistan, Sudan and the US.

Good for them. Glad to see they dont believe in justice.

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is one of the worst sayings I've ever heard.

Here's a serious question for you Zebulon, would you rather be executed in a year or spend the rest of your life in prison.

[??????????]

Countries that abolished the death penalty:
Canada, Australia, Israel, UK , Germany and the rest of Europe.
The death penalty still exists in: Uganda, Zair, Syria, Egypt, Chaina, Burma, Pakistan, Sudan and the US.

Good for them. Glad to see they dont believe in justice.

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is one of the worst sayings I've ever heard.

Here's a serious question for you Zebulon, would you rather be executed in a year or spend the rest of your life in prison.

If I committed a heinous rape or murder then justice should be swift and solid.

[Akno21]

Countries that abolished the death penalty:
Canada, Australia, Israel, UK , Germany and the rest of Europe.
The death penalty still exists in: Uganda, Zair, Syria, Egypt, Chaina, Burma, Pakistan, Sudan and the US.

Good for them. Glad to see they dont believe in justice.

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is one of the worst sayings I've ever heard.

Here's a serious question for you Zebulon, would you rather be executed in a year or spend the rest of your life in prison.

If I committed a heinous rape or murder then justice should be swift and solid.

So you would rather die quickly?

[dazzleman]

The Supreme Court continues its recent tradition of judicial activism.

One of the most alarming things is the Supreme Court basing decisions on international consensus.  Well, personally, I don't care what the Europeans think on most issues.

I don't even necessarily favor the execution of 17 and 18 year olds, though I can't say I firmly oppose it.  I think anybody old enough to commit a heinous crime is old enough to take responsibility for it.

By pushing through ever-more liberal ideas on crime, we only create more victims, and increase the suffering of those who have already been victimized by crime.  That has been the liberal contribution to the crime issue for the past 40 years.

[??????????]

Countries that abolished the death penalty:
Canada, Australia, Israel, UK , Germany and the rest of Europe.
The death penalty still exists in: Uganda, Zair, Syria, Egypt, Chaina, Burma, Pakistan, Sudan and the US.

Good for them. Glad to see they dont believe in justice.

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is one of the worst sayings I've ever heard.

Here's a serious question for you Zebulon, would you rather be executed in a year or spend the rest of your life in prison.

If I committed a heinous rape or murder then justice should be swift and solid.

So you would rather die quickly?

Certainly, wouldnt you?

[David S]

The Supreme Court continues its recent tradition of judicial activism.

One of the most alarming things is the Supreme Court basing decisions on international consensus. 

Exactly right!

All of the Justices take an oath to support the constitution when they take office. They do not take an oath to impose "international consensus" on the American justice system.

[Akno21]

Countries that abolished the death penalty:
Canada, Australia, Israel, UK , Germany and the rest of Europe.
The death penalty still exists in: Uganda, Zair, Syria, Egypt, Chaina, Burma, Pakistan, Sudan and the US.

Good for them. Glad to see they dont believe in justice.

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is one of the worst sayings I've ever heard.

Here's a serious question for you Zebulon, would you rather be executed in a year or spend the rest of your life in prison.

If I committed a heinous rape or murder then justice should be swift and solid.

So you would rather die quickly?

Certainly, wouldnt you?

Yes, so why let criminals have the easy way out that we'd prefer to have? Why not make them sit there for decades with no hope for release?

[??????????]

Countries that abolished the death penalty:
Canada, Australia, Israel, UK , Germany and the rest of Europe.
The death penalty still exists in: Uganda, Zair, Syria, Egypt, Chaina, Burma, Pakistan, Sudan and the US.

Good for them. Glad to see they dont believe in justice.

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is one of the worst sayings I've ever heard.

Here's a serious question for you Zebulon, would you rather be executed in a year or spend the rest of your life in prison.

If I committed a heinous rape or murder then justice should be swift and solid.

So you would rather die quickly?

Certainly, wouldnt you?

Yes, so why let criminals have the easy way out that we'd prefer to have? Why not make them sit there for decades with no hope for release?

Why keep the scumbags around? Why feed them for years at the cost of my tax money? Why risk them breaking out and escaping? If you are going to keep them around at least put them to good use and use them as slaves of some sort. Building roads or something like that.

[Blue Rectangle]

It appears that those in the forum that support this ruling are those who oppose the death penalty in general.  Is there anyone out there who generally supports the death penalty and thinks this ruling makes good law?

[dazzleman]

It appears that those in the forum that support this ruling are those who oppose the death penalty in general.  Is there anyone out there who generally supports the death penalty and thinks this ruling makes good law?

Not me.

[Peter]

Why keep the scumbags around? Why feed them for years at the cost of my tax money? Why risk them breaking out and escaping? If you are going to keep them around at least put them to good use and use them as slaves of some sort. Building roads or something like that.

It costs more money to keep having the defendant go through the endless death penalty appeals that stem from the death penalty sentence than keeping them in jail for life on average.

I quote Justice Kennedy: "This reality [of international opinion] does not become controlling, for the task of interpreting the Eighth Amendment remains our responsibility". The Court then actually goes on to use the only foreign law insertion that Justice Scalia says is allowed: pre-1776 English Law (obviously what is now at least in part the US was subject to this law at the time).

Whilst the links they draw are tenuous, they draw at least in part on the British having abolished the juvenile death penalty as being related to the deriving document of the Eighth Amendment - The Bill of Rights 1689.

The Court then totally rebukes the suggestion that this in anyway is the basis of its decision, merely an affirmation of its conclusions: "The opinion of the world community, while not controlling our outcome, does provide respected and significant confirmation for our own conclusions."

The decision is based on a growing national consensus against the the practice and to cite Justice Kennedy one last time: "The age of 18 is the point where society draws the line for many purposes between childhood and adulthood. It is, we conclude, the age at which the line for death eligibility ought to rest."

The Court acknowledges the fact that younger teenagers are not able to make decisions as well as adults and draws on society's own definition of adult (which of course is actually bound up in the 26th Amendment) to draw the line.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The good thing to me is, this ruling means nothing in my state. Because we don't have the death penalty at all! That's one thing to be proud of.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The Supreme Court continues its recent tradition of judicial activism.

One of the most alarming things is the Supreme Court basing decisions on international consensus.  Well, personally, I don't care what the Europeans think on most issues.

I'm fine with outlawing executions of those under 18, but I am deeply troubled and very angry by the reliance on international consensus.  I find it intellectually insulting.

[AuH2O]

It's an illegal decision, plain and simple. Not based in Constitutional law.

I would impeach all 5 that voted in that way, regardless of the issue.

[??????????]

The Supreme Court continues its recent tradition of judicial activism.

One of the most alarming things is the Supreme Court basing decisions on international consensus.  Well, personally, I don't care what the Europeans think on most issues.

I'm fine with outlawing executions of those under 18, but I am deeply troubled and very angry by the reliance on international consensus.  I find it intellectually insulting.

What is the difference between a 17 & 18 y.o.? Nothing.

[Peter]

What is the difference between a 17 & 18 y.o.? Nothing.

You can be drafted into the military
You can vote
You can enter into legal contracts without parental consent
You can get married
You can buy or appear in pornography

The list goes on and on...

[Blue Rectangle]

What is the difference between a 17 & 18 y.o.? Nothing.

You can be drafted into the military
You can vote
You can enter into legal contracts without parental consent
You can get married
You can buy or appear in pornography

The list goes on and on...

The states were not simply executing any 17 year old guilty of first degree murder.  Capital murder charges are only sought against certain offenders.  The point here is that some, not all, crimes warrant this punishment.  It is decided on a case-by-case basis.  In response to your list:

--It is possible for a 17 year old to enlist in the military; there is no blanket ban on this.
--Voting right can obviously not be doled out on a case-by-case basis, but I think you will agree that some 17 year olds would be far more competent than some 60 year olds.
--17 year old are not banned from signing contracts.  In addition, a 17 year old can be emancipated, giving them the right to enter into contracts.
--17 year olds are not banned from marriage; they simply must get parental permission unless they are emancipated.
--17 year olds cannot buy pornography, but just try to ban them from possessing it.

In other words, 17 year olds often are allowed similar rights as 18 year olds, if the circumstances warrant it.  Why should the states not have the power to pursue capital charges in cases where it is warranted?