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  Is Hillary Clinton getting Religion?
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Author Topic: Is Hillary Clinton getting Religion?  (Read 4328 times)
Frodo
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« on: March 01, 2005, 10:02:20 pm »

i do not know how religiously devout she is in private, but i never had the impression that she cared about religion unless it suited certain political ends.  i hate politicians like this who aren't particularly religious (on either side of the political spectrum), yet try to pander to the gullible and convince them that they are just like them.  Jesus, Hillary would be much better off if she were just being herself and not trying to convince people that she's more religious than she really is -voters crave politicians who at least seem authentic:

God Is a Centrist Democrat
Hillary Clinton moves self, whole party into the religious middle

by Kristen Lombardi
March 2 - 8, 2005   

If it's true that the Democratic Party is about to get religion, then Hillary Clinton is first at the altar. Much has been made of Clinton's newly softened image—the way she tore down her old liberal icon and got spiritual over abortion, for instance. She told an Albany crowd on January 24 that abortion represents "a sad, even tragic choice to many, many women," and singled out "religious and moral values" as an antidote to teenage sex. Never mind the New York junior senator's continued advice that pro-choice activists find "common ground" with their anti-abortion counterparts. Pundits chalked up the putative presidential candidate's remarks to a post-election Democratic shift to the center. After all, the only way to win national office anymore is to move to the middle, and these days that means getting serious about God and guns.

And sure enough, there she was, getting cozy with Republican maverick John McCain on NBC's Meet the Press last week, as he said she'd make "a good president." She played commander in chief, going out of her way to disagree with the hard-left wing of her own party by insisting that the troops must stay in Iraq to keep the insurgents at bay.

Yet for all the notice of Clinton's centrist tone and morality-speak on the national stage, her New York constituents largely missed the senator's real debut as a God-fearing Middle American. It came in a January 19 speech in Boston that made headlines there, with Clinton appearing in a Globe photograph alongside the host, Reverend Eugene Rivers III, one of the state's most outspoken opponents of same-sex marriage.

Clinton had traveled there to attend a benefit for Rivers's youth-outreach program, known as the National Ten Point Leadership Foundation, which promotes faith-based solutions to gang violence and urban crime. At the event, attended by many of the city's prominent black ministers, the senator celebrated the foundation's street ministry to at-risk kids. But she also used the opportunity to demonstrate her commitment to a key issue in the culture wars, the role of faith in addressing social ills like poverty and hunger. Listen to her praise faith-based initiatives:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0509,lombardi1,61604,6.html
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NYGurl
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2005, 10:05:25 pm »

Bush "Found' Jesus just in time to run for office.
Happens all the time.
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Frodo
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2005, 10:14:20 pm »

Bush "Found' Jesus just in time to run for office.
Happens all the time.

perhaps, but if the Democratic Party really wants to bridge the gap on religious values with voters, then it must choose candidates who actually are religious, like Bob Casey of Pennsylvania for instance who is a strong economic populist to boot. 
while i admire Hillary Clinton for being a strong woman, she would be much more at home appealing to women nationwide, rather than trying to make herself something that she isn't.  does she seriously think any one is going to be fooled by her rather sudden just-in-time-for-the-elections religiosity?  if anything, it would prove more a liability than a benefit.  let's face it, the reality of the situation is that Democrats are more likely to be called for their lack of authenticity than Republicans -that's just the way the political landscape is of late.   shouldn't we be trying to adapt to these circumstances rather than being tone-deaf on pleas for authenticity from voters? 
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2005, 10:14:55 pm »

LIke him or not, Bush's conversion seems prety genuine.

Everythng Hillary does smacks of tactical advantage.  If she can better position herslf, vis-a-vis her potential Democrat rivals, by running as a born-again, she will.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2005, 05:17:52 pm »

LIke him or not, Bush's conversion seems prety genuine.
Must have been pretty damn recent, since he used to make fun of the two retarded Christians he executed as Governor of Texas.  (Once, he imitated one of the people for an interview: he made a dumb-looking face and said, "Please don't kill me!")  There's also the video footage of him flipping the bird.

Bush also seems to have no problem invading countries that did nothing to us, as well as breaking the commandment, "Don't take the Lord's name in vein," by going around the country pandering to religious (and sadly gullible) voters.  That's what taking the Lord's name in vein is.  Claiming to do something for God when what he's doing is just the opposite.  Bush doesn't care about the poor, or the environment, or the death penalty, and if he cared about abortion he'd have done more about it than just sit there all day and proclaim he's pro-life.  Bush is about as Christian as Hillary Clinton is, if not less.
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2005, 07:02:02 pm »

Have you ever strayed form any of the tenets of your faith, and I mean even the smallest of them?

What innocent nation did he invade--Lichtenstein?   Are your referring to Iraq?  God, that's such a tired argument.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2005, 07:08:54 pm »

Have you ever strayed form any of the tenets of your faith, and I mean even the smallest of them?
Of course I have.  One of the major beliefs of my faith is that all have sinned.  But you changed the subject.  Bush has been in powerful positions all his life, and all he does is sit around and execute people, destroy the environment, or invade countries.

Quote
What innocent nation did he invade--Lichtenstein?   Are your referring to Iraq?  God, that's such a tired argument.
I guess you'd feel that way if we were treated the way America has treated Iraq, right?
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2005, 08:06:49 pm »

I dunno.  How would I feel if another nation came in and toppled a murderous dictator who had killed hundreds of thousands of my fellow countrymen whenever the whim overcame him, and who had launched two disastrous wars against neighboring countries that killed many hundreds of thousands of my family, friends, neighbors and countrymen?  How would I feel about a nation that allowed me to vote in a FREE election for the first time ever, for representatives of my own choosing?  I may not be overly excited at the presence of foreign troops in my country, but considering that the foreign troops treated me with more dignity and respect than the army of my former dictator, I think I could put up with it until my nation was back on its feet again--especially since the occupying nation was bankrolling the economic reconstruction of my country.

Let me guess, you've never served your nation in any capacity, have you?
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TomC
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2005, 10:20:39 pm »


Let me guess, you've never served your nation in any capacity, have you?

Now that's a tired insinuation. Not that the Grand Old Party really honors service. Happy to defend someone who ignored his obligations, happy to trash someone who served and told the truth about that service.

I'm not saying you've done all this NDR, but the GOP itself uses the notion of "service" for its own political gains, or it would honor service without reservation. Limbaugh is the perfect example. What does he do when given the opportunity to bolster troop morale? He says, essentially, people back home wish things were going worse and wish that you all were injured more or dead more. Sick sick garbage. They're soldiers, not pawns in partisan debates.

Nice rebut on Iraq though. Too bad you then had to make it personal.
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Jake
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2005, 10:29:27 pm »

Have you ever strayed form any of the tenets of your faith, and I mean even the smallest of them?
Of course I have.  One of the major beliefs of my faith is that all have sinned.  But you changed the subject.  Bush has been in powerful positions all his life, and all he does is sit around and execute people, destroy the environment, or invade countries.

Quote
What innocent nation did he invade--Lichtenstein?   Are your referring to Iraq?  God, that's such a tired argument.
I guess you'd feel that way if we were treated the way America has treated Iraq, right?

Bush hates trees, and parks, and clean air.  That's why he lets evil big business cut all the trees and pollute the air and actually make our economy move. If Bush cared about the enviroment he would've signed Kyoto and sent our economy down the drain.  That bastard
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TomC
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2005, 10:35:36 pm »

Bob's blue, Jake's red...I'm so confused!!!
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Ebowed
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2005, 10:37:14 pm »

I dunno.  How would I feel if another nation came in and toppled a murderous dictator who had killed hundreds of thousands of my fellow countrymen whenever the whim overcame him, and who had launched two disastrous wars against neighboring countries that killed many hundreds of thousands of my family, friends, neighbors and countrymen?  How would I feel about a nation that allowed me to vote in a FREE election for the first time ever, for representatives of my own choosing?  I may not be overly excited at the presence of foreign troops in my country, but considering that the foreign troops treated me with more dignity and respect than the army of my former dictator, I think I could put up with it until my nation was back on its feet again--especially since the occupying nation was bankrolling the economic reconstruction of my country.
At least you recognize some of the problems in Iraq (i.e. foreign troops all over the place).  But see where I'm coming from.  I don't see much difference between Saddam and George W. Bush, except that Bush is probably a little dumber, and Saddam is a little more sinister.  But they're pretty much the same.  Saddam kills people in his own country; so does Bush by sending people over there.  Bush screws around with our environment and doesn't seem to mind the fact that our economy is falling over thanks to outsourcing.  If a country much bigger than us (not that there is any at the moment) came and bombed us because we had weapons of mass destruction, would you be a little pissed off?  And then, let's say that they didn't find any weapons of mass destruction and said it was to remove our leader?  Would you get even more pissed off?  Would you be thinking, "Gee, these people don't know what they're doing?," or would you be thinking, "Thanks for liberating us with your bombs, bigger country!"

Quote
Let me guess, you've never served your nation in any capacity, have you?
You're right; I didn't go to Iraq so I've never served my nation in any way, shape or form.  How about yourself?  Why aren't you down in the trences in Iraq rather than sitting in Tennessee?
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Ebowed
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2005, 10:40:28 pm »

Bush hates trees, and parks, and clean air.  That's why he lets evil big business cut all the trees and pollute the air and actually make our economy move. If Bush cared about the enviroment he would've signed Kyoto and sent our economy down the drain.  That bastard
yeah, our current economy matters much more than that stupid old environment... if we have to screw up the environment at least we have a good economy... right?

Oh wait, the economy sucks right now
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2005, 10:43:15 pm »

Having been in the military myself, I do take it personally, especially when someone insinuates that our military acts in a rapacious way, or that it covets another country.  I'll bet that the vast majority of the soldiers and airmen  serving in Iraq are very proud of the work that they are doing there, and that every last one of them wants nothing more than to see Iraq free and stable so that they can come back home.  We aren't the Evil Empire!
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2005, 10:45:23 pm »

The economy sucks?  What planet do you live on?
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TomC
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2005, 10:46:47 pm »

Bush hates trees, and parks, and clean air.  That's why he lets evil big business cut all the trees and pollute the air and actually make our economy move. If Bush cared about the enviroment he would've signed Kyoto and sent our economy down the drain.  That bastard
yeah, our current economy matters much more than that stupid old environment... if we have to screw up the environment at least we have a good economy... right?

Oh wait, the economy sucks right now
Actually, the economy is doing quite well except for the incredible costs of health care. Good economy...unless you're sick.
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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2005, 10:57:02 pm »

Even in regards to health care, we aren't doing too badly.  The vast majority of Americans are covered with health insurance, and even the uninsured can get catastrophic care at an ED.

Our health care is expensive, but it is the best in the world.  Costs will come down when everyone stops demanding an MRI to confirm whether or not they have constipation.  Our health care is as expensive as we want it to be.  We want the very best, but we don't want to pay for the best.
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J.R. Brown
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« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2005, 11:06:20 pm »

I don't think anyone should use God or Christ for that matter as a means for political gain. It's morally wrong. Bush may be sincere and Hillary may also be. None of us have the right to question their faith. We don't know them personally. I would also like to note that Christ was a pacafist.
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« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2005, 11:09:20 pm »

He was also God.  What's your point?
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TomC
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« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2005, 11:11:29 pm »

Even in regards to health care, we aren't doing too badly.  The vast majority of Americans are covered with health insurance, and even the uninsured can get catastrophic care at an ED.

Our health care is expensive, but it is the best in the world.  Costs will come down when everyone stops demanding an MRI to confirm whether or not they have constipation.  Our health care is as expensive as we want it to be.  We want the very best, but we don't want to pay for the best.

I don't know anyone who has gotten an MRI for constipation, and I have every faith that the insurance companies will have something to say about those who do, but I know plenty of people with cancer. It's expensive. Insurance or not. I think they'd disagree with your assessment that "It's as expensive as you want it to be."Maybe the care is better than other nations, but it breaks or bankrupts hundreds of thousands. And if you go to an "ER," it's not free- only if you have no money (essentially bankrupt) will you not pay (since you can't), otherwise they'll come looking for payment. Just ask em at Frist's HCA/TriStar.
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J.R. Brown
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2005, 11:12:29 pm »

Even in regards to health care, we aren't doing too badly. The vast majority of Americans are covered with health insurance, and even the uninsured can get catastrophic care at an ED.

Our health care is expensive, but it is the best in the world. Costs will come down when everyone stops demanding an MRI to confirm whether or not they have constipation. Our health care is as expensive as we want it to be. We want the very best, but we don't want to pay for the best.
So if citizen x can't afford that healthcare, and are in a life threatening situation, do they deserve to die because you are too greedy to contribute to the health of your fellow American. Hope you like your tax cut, citizen x sure doesn't enjoy his, because he's DEAD.
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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2005, 11:12:50 pm »

He was also God.  What's your point?
He was just saying he was a pacifist.  Which many Christians today are not.

The economy is also doing poorly in terms of job growth considering that large companies all over the country are cutting American jobs for outsourced ones.  Call the number in your computer manual and ask the guy in India who just learned English to get paid the minimum wage if America's economy is doing well some time.
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J.R. Brown
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« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2005, 11:13:54 pm »

He was also God. What's your point?
He was just saying he was a pacifist. Which many Christians today are not.

The economy is also doing poorly in terms of job growth considering that large companies all over the country are cutting American jobs for outsourced ones. Call the number in your computer manual and ask the guy in India who just learned English to get paid the minimum wage if America's economy is doing well some time.
Exactly
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« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2005, 11:15:36 pm »

More jobs are being in-sourced than outsourced, and despite recent cries of bloody murder by some reactionary economists, this is not a new trend.
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TomC
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« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2005, 11:15:56 pm »

"Don't mention Christ...I'd like to mention Christ was for Peace."

Which is it? Mention him for political gain or not?

Hillary's a political hack. We need an outsider. I'm gonna puke if I have to discuss Hillary for four to twelve years... no matter what she says about God. I couldn't care less.
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