***Politburo Elections*** Labor Party Fall 2013 Convention!

[Sec. of State Superique]

May I suggest: Talleyrand for President?

[Talleyrand]

May I suggest: Talleyrand for President?

I appreciate the thought, but I don't think I'd be a very good President. At the very least, not better than the candidates already in the race (even Snowstalker ).

[sentinel]

My point in bringing up Snowstalker's performance was really that we don't want an Adlai Stevenson.

[Maxwell]

I would love Snowstalker as the nominee. Cogendism and Sagery Unite, let's put an end to Capitalism!

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Well, if DemPGH ends up receiving the Labor Party's endorsement (not that I have any say over it), hopefully that will lead to certain people's egos undergoing a much needed deflation.

(Though a Snowstalker administration would be interesting.  I'd love to see how this 'cogendism' thing gets carried out...)

[Kitteh]

FWIW, if DemPGH wins the Labor nomination I will continue my campaign as an independent or NMAM candidate, and give Duke my 2nd preference ahead of him.

[Oakvale]

My point in bringing up Snowstalker's performance was really that we don't want an Adlai Stevenson.

I'm not sure how comparing Snowstalker to an icon of American liberalism is a negative.

[Sec. of State Superique]

FWIW, if DemPGH wins the Labor nomination I will continue my campaign as an independent or NMAM candidate, and give Duke my 2nd preference ahead of him.

Comandante "Heloísa Helena" Kitteh up in arms!

[Kitteh]

So snowstalker, who would your vp be?

A federalist ticket supported by the labor party, well .

If either of those happen, I'm sorry, I'll have to go to the Progressives. Especially the latter.

There's nothing "progressive" about the Moderate Hero Union. Duke's candidacy represents an opportunity for Atlasians to unite around one leader in a way we haven't seen for some time.

Progressives to your left economically:
Myself
Siren
Scott
Oak Hills
Tiver
Superique
Butafly
GAWorth
Yeahsayyeah
Kashifsikhan

Progressives to your left socially:
Myself
Scott
Tiver
butafly
Yeahsayyeah
Marnetmar

A majority of progressives are economically to your left and a near-majority is socially to your left. Not to mention that the Federalist party candidate is to your left in both economics and social issues. I'd hold off on calling people not progressive enough when they're to your left on the spectrum.

Yes, this would be a valid point if we pretend that one's positions on the "political spectrum" as determined by the Political Matrix test are in any way a meaningful indicator of progressivism.

So what is your definition of progressivism?

A meaningless buzzword invented because American conservatives have successfully demonized the word "liberal", which was itself a meaningless term invented to differentiate "mainstream" American leftists from socialism after socialism had become demonized in the same way.

Or, a historical movement of the late Gilded Age composed mostly of upper/upper-middle-class people who sympathized with the plight of the poor and wanted to fix the problems of their time but in a way that didn't challenge their own fundamentally privileged place in society; who left a mixed legacy, on balance positive but with many negative aspects that their modern-day admirers often overlook.

Take your pick. 

[Adam Griffin]

So snowstalker, who would your vp be?

A federalist ticket supported by the labor party, well .

If either of those happen, I'm sorry, I'll have to go to the Progressives. Especially the latter.

There's nothing "progressive" about the Moderate Hero Union. Duke's candidacy represents an opportunity for Atlasians to unite around one leader in a way we haven't seen for some time.

Progressives to your left economically:
Myself
Siren
Scott
Oak Hills
Tiver
Superique
Butafly
GAWorth
Yeahsayyeah
Kashifsikhan

Progressives to your left socially:
Myself
Scott
Tiver
butafly
Yeahsayyeah
Marnetmar

A majority of progressives are economically to your left and a near-majority is socially to your left. Not to mention that the Federalist party candidate is to your left in both economics and social issues. I'd hold off on calling people not progressive enough when they're to your left on the spectrum.

Yes, this would be a valid point if we pretend that one's positions on the "political spectrum" as determined by the Political Matrix test are in any way a meaningful indicator of progressivism.

So what is your definition of progressivism?

Not trying to wade too much into this, but PM scores are only good for figuring out whether someone is recruitable material or not - and even then, it's not 100% accurate (hell, the only reason the Liberal Party stayed afloat for so long was because they were getting 1/3 of Labor's PM recruits). Ben Kenobi, FFS, had a centrist E or S score (can't remember which). I always consider people's ideologies within Atlasia based on who they vote for, not what they say.

[Adam Griffin]

Also, when is this Presidential primary occurring?

[Dr. Cynic]

FWIW, if DemPGH wins the Labor nomination I will continue my campaign as an independent or NMAM candidate, and give Duke my 2nd preference ahead of him.

But you think we should give you the Labor nomination of DemPGH for what reason exactly? Balls to that.

It is occurring to me with ever increasing alarm that this party will be completely torn apart and that the Federalists will get power anyway.

[windjammer]

FWIW, if DemPGH wins the Labor nomination I will continue my campaign as an independent or NMAM candidate, and give Duke my 2nd preference ahead of him.

I think some of us don't care about what you think. If you want to give Duke the 2nd preference, you can.

[Dr. Cynic]

FWIW, if DemPGH wins the Labor nomination I will continue my campaign as an independent or NMAM candidate, and give Duke my 2nd preference ahead of him.

I think some of us don't care about what you think. If you want to give Duke the 2nd preference, you can.

Register back with NMAM then, because at this point, after your comments, I will do all that is in my power to make sure you are not endorsed by this party. I'd have us endorse Snowstalker over you.

[Kitteh]

FWIW, if DemPGH wins the Labor nomination I will continue my campaign as an independent or NMAM candidate, and give Duke my 2nd preference ahead of him.

But you think we should give you the Labor nomination of DemPGH for what reason exactly? Balls to that.

It is occurring to me with ever increasing alarm that this party will be completely torn apart and that the Federalists will get power anyway.

Duke isn't some scary evil conservative-he was on our ticket just 2 elections ago ffs. I'm not excited or terrified about the idea of him winning, but I'd take him over someone who's entire career has been built on incessantly filing frivolous lawsuits against anyone working for change. This isn't about left vs right, there's only a small difference there btw Duke and DemPGH anyway.

[Dr. Cynic]

FWIW, if DemPGH wins the Labor nomination I will continue my campaign as an independent or NMAM candidate, and give Duke my 2nd preference ahead of him.

But you think we should give you the Labor nomination of DemPGH for what reason exactly? Balls to that.

It is occurring to me with ever increasing alarm that this party will be completely torn apart and that the Federalists will get power anyway.

Duke isn't some scary evil conservative-he was on our ticket just 2 elections ago ffs. I'm not excited or terrified about the idea of him winning, but I'd take him over someone who's entire career has been built on incessantly filing frivolous lawsuits against anyone working for change. This isn't about left vs right, there's only a small difference there btw Duke and DemPGH anyway.

Then do what you want to do. Why should this party endorse the ticket of our party's chief competitor? What you do is fine, but I don't feel that's the sort of change I want.

[Gass3268]

Also, when is this Presidential primary occurring?

We need to adopt new by-laws and a new platform first.

BTW Adam Griffin and President Nix have been named to the by-laws committee. We will hopefully have something posted on here soon.

[Kitteh]

FWIW, if DemPGH wins the Labor nomination I will continue my campaign as an independent or NMAM candidate, and give Duke my 2nd preference ahead of him.

But you think we should give you the Labor nomination of DemPGH for what reason exactly? Balls to that.

It is occurring to me with ever increasing alarm that this party will be completely torn apart and that the Federalists will get power anyway.

Duke isn't some scary evil conservative-he was on our ticket just 2 elections ago ffs. I'm not excited or terrified about the idea of him winning, but I'd take him over someone who's entire career has been built on incessantly filing frivolous lawsuits against anyone working for change. This isn't about left vs right, there's only a small difference there btw Duke and DemPGH anyway.

Then do what you want to do. Why should this party endorse the ticket of our party's chief competitor? What you do is fine, but I don't feel that's the sort of change I want.

I never said I want the Labor party to endorse Duke. If I did I wouldn't be asking them to endorse me, obvs . I just said that in the case that the party endorses DemPGH I (and a very large contingent of this party) would break with them and support Duke over him.

I'm pretty sure this is a hypothetical though because the chances of DemPGH winning the labor nomination are extremely small. Look at this poll, for example, Laborites would prefer Duke to him, and only 30% of Labor would even vote for DemPGH! This is entirely confirmed by private polling I've done. The president aside, there really isn't support for DemPGH in Labor. He should have realized that he can't rely on the party for support sometimes, stab them in the back others, then come back begging for support again and expect people to be receptive.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I hate to keep self-advertising, but remember which of the possible Labor candidates was actually a party member before yesterday.

[Kitteh]

I hate to keep self-advertising, but remember which of the possible Labor candidates was actually a party member before yesterday.

Not really a fair accusation, I started off as a Labor member, I've held more offices under the Labor banner than any other, I've voted for the Labor ticket in every presidential election (including over the NMAM ticket once) and I've always been an ally and supporter of Labor from the outside or the inside.

[TNF]

The Platform is nearly complete, I'm just putting the finishing touches on it. Look for it sometime this week (probably closer to tomorrow or Wednesday).

[Maxwell]

I hate to keep self-advertising, but remember which of the possible Labor candidates was actually a party member before yesterday.

Indeed. It's a shame that the Labor Party is even THINKING about picking a non-purist, non-cogendist nominee. Why, it's downright despicable

[sentinel]

I hate to keep self-advertising, but remember which of the possible Labor candidates was actually a party member before yesterday.

Indeed. It's a shame that the Labor Party is even THINKING about picking a non-purist, non-cogendist nominee. Why, it's downright despicable

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/spellcheck/american_english/?q=cogendist

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cogendist

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/spellcheck/american-english/?q=cogendist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=cogendist&go=Go

Explain, please.

[Maxwell]

Snowstalker's very own paternalistic leftist ideology.

[Kitteh]

I mean no attack on the platform or bylaws committee, they're doing fine work and working as fast as reasonably possible, but we really don't have time to wait for this. We have 11 days until this election, if we wait another two or three to vote and then a day or two for voting we're going to have barely a week or less before the election with a nominee. Ending this chaos should be this party's #1 priority right now.

I believe, though, that the party's bylaws do not strictly require us to conclude the platform and bylaws revisions prior to endorsement voting. The relevant section:

III. ESTABLISHMENT & MANAGEMENT OF CONVENTIONS
3. Each convention will have the following agenda:
   a. Updating and amending the Party by-laws
   b. Updating and amending the Party platform
   c. Endorsements for the upcoming Atlasia Federal Elections
   d. Special and irregular business put forward by the Politburo
   e. Establishing the date and city for the upcoming convention

It does not specify that those items of business must be undertaken in that order. In fact, in the last convention, they weren't:

[END] Seeing as how the platform committee is still working on the final pieces before proposal, we will now be moving straight to our Presidential endorsement.

There is precedent for holding an endorsement vote while the platform and bylaws are not yet completed, and I believe it is in our party's interest to do so.