Are Gay-Rights Laws Trampling on Freedom of Religion? (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 30, 2024, 09:46:13 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Are Gay-Rights Laws Trampling on Freedom of Religion? (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Are Gay-Rights Laws Trampling on Freedom of Religion?  (Read 4222 times)
MasterJedi
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,654
United States


« on: October 05, 2017, 07:24:05 AM »

Depends which gay rights laws.  Laws allowing gay people to have sex, serve in the military, adopt children, and marry don't infringe on religious liberty because they don't force you to do anything.  You can disagree with gay rights, but it doesn't infringe on your liberty.  The issue where you can see a conflict is with discrimination law.  For example, should a Christian baker be able to refuse a wedding cake for a gay wedding?  In reality this is not a clash between gay rights and religious liberty but it is a clash between anti-discrimination laws and religious liberty.  The concept of forcing private individuals to provide their labor in an equal manner vs. the right of people to live out their faith in their daily life when they are not doing harm unto others (I don't consider refusing association or a transaction to be harming someone).  I have somewhat of a different outlook on this issue that conservatives do.  Conservatives try to pass Religious Freedom laws that in theory allow refusal to gays for religious reasons only.  Ok, that is a start, but my view is that the party being refused and the reason for refusal don't matter.  A private business should not be require to provide their services to anyone, period.  The reason for refusal shouldn't HAVE TO BE religious and gays aren't the only class that should be able to be legally refused service.  The only area I see a reason where the government would compel service is if it is a large, incorporated business that is the only or one of the few proprietors of a service.  An example of this is a phone company, electric company, water company, gas company ect.  Also, a mega-corporation like Wal-Mart should not be able to deny service for any reason.  However, it is very unlikely a large corporation would engage in discriminatory practices because it would hurt their bottom line and literally, the reason for a corporation to exist is to make a profit that goes to their shareholders.  I believe in freedom and consistency, and I just hate the idea of the government compelling you to serve someone when you don't want to, simple as that. 

Why don't you just admit you are for discrimination? You try and make it seem like you don't but then you say "anyone should be able to discriminate unless they're a large corporation". Besides, nobody is making anyone violate their religious beliefs when it comes to themselves, but when you open a business or take a job you are required to follow the law of the land, which is separate from the church. Don't like it? Go do something else, but you can't discriminate against someone because you don't believe they should have rights, no matter how small you are.
Logged
MasterJedi
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,654
United States


« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 07:38:02 AM »

Why is religious conscientious exemption held higher in law (and the answer to this is partly tradition) than philosophical conscientious exemption?

As you said, tradition.  Yet where you seem to take the position that religion should be leveled with other philosophies by denying the use of a religious reason to engage in discrimination, I take the complete opposite tack.  To me it doesn't matter why that photographer we've been using as an example wants to be an idiot and not shoot gay weddings. When rights conflict, there is a need to choose which takes precedence, but I see no compelling reason in this case to force him to provide that service so as to facilitate a right to be married.  To me it's not freedom of religion that rights laws trample but freedom of association.  Freedom of religion is but a specific case of freedom of association. I grant the OP posed the question in terms of that specific case, but the right that is trampled is the more generic one.
So you're against the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

No he's not but you've just proven you're against the first amendment by comparing freedom of religion to segregation. What's so bad about freedom of religion which includes the church's right to not accept gay marriage?  Does this mean you're against freedom of speech as protected by our first amendment too? You must oppose it because you're sure against people speaking from religious grounds to support where they stand.
If my religion says I can't serve black or interracial couples, do you apply the same logic?

He says yes, but only if you own a small business, not a corporation. Roll Eyes
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.022 seconds with 12 queries.