Are Gay-Rights Laws Trampling on Freedom of Religion? (user search)
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  Are Gay-Rights Laws Trampling on Freedom of Religion? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Are Gay-Rights Laws Trampling on Freedom of Religion?  (Read 4235 times)
afleitch
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« on: September 26, 2013, 08:41:25 AM »

Is it conducive to society to grant people outs from equality legislation? If society grows to consider homophobia or sexism or racism as morally repugnant, why enact laws to grant people an exemption from that understanding based on religious faith alone? I do not doubt the sincerity of the convictions of people who don’t wish to serve me based on their religious objections to me as a person, but nor do I doubt the sincerity of the convictions held by someone who doesn’t wish to serve me based on the fact that I am a Tory, or to assist a friend of mine because he is black. Some people sincerely and deeply hold the belief that black people are simply inferior regardless of what the law says or how society has moved on and find it a day to day struggle in their jobs, lives and in their community to act upon their own deeply held conscience. No one proposes legislation to assist them. Because of the curios of the Constitution perhaps if they formed a religion in which they could express their sincere convictions then they may be allowed that element of protection. Indeed, society should just simply form more religions based on everything from sexuality, to hair colour. Really morbidly obese people can form an Obese Church and get some tax exempt cheek room..

What might be more accurate of course is that people object to having to serve gay people not because of sincerely held religious beliefs but because in general, they are assholes. The same goes for white supremacists that hold similarly sincerely held beliefs and feel that not turning away n-ggers away from their shop interferes with that. They are assholes. When you go through life you will generally meet people you can’t stand for any rational or irrational reason; if you interact with these people be nice about it. Do everything through gritted teeth if you have to, just don’t be an asshole and demand that they law should allow you to be because you are say, a ‘Christian’, because the vast majority of Christians are not assholes and can generally handle being a Christian while dealing with groups and people they perhaps on paper, shouldn’t have to. Given that most politicians are assholes (with Republicans in particular going one step further into being ar$eholes) then they appeal to the asshole constitutent more often than they should because assholes in general whine about everything. The fact a photographer is whining about having to take the pictures of a gay couple is like whining about having to take photographs of fossils when contractually doing a nature shoot, because they were planted there by Jews. Do we run to the regional legislature and demand that he has the right not to deal with anything, [absolutely anything he can think of if he can twist it into some conscientious religious objection? But if you’re morbidly obese, a Communist, a ginger supremacist or the organiser of the Nazi Supermen Are Our Superiors bake sale and rodeo you can get to f-ck because it’s not a religious objection?
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afleitch
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2013, 10:17:17 AM »
« Edited: September 26, 2013, 10:23:37 AM by afleitch »

Is it conducive to society to grant people outs from equality legislation? If society grows to consider homophobia or sexism or racism as morally repugnant, why enact laws to grant people an exemption from that understanding based on religious faith alone? I do not doubt the sincerity of the convictions of people who don’t wish to serve me based on their religious objections to me as a person, but nor do I doubt the sincerity of the convictions held by someone who doesn’t wish to serve me based on the fact that I am a Tory, or to assist a friend of mine because he is black. Some people sincerely and deeply hold the belief that black people are simply inferior regardless of what the law says or how society has moved on and find it a day to day struggle in their jobs, lives and in their community to act upon their own deeply held conscience. No one proposes legislation to assist them. Because of the curios of the Constitution perhaps if they formed a religion in which they could express their sincere convictions then they may be allowed that element of protection. Indeed, society should just simply form more religions based on everything from sexuality, to hair colour. Really morbidly obese people can form an Obese Church and get some tax exempt cheek room..

You know, it's posts like this that make me think you are not merely an atheist, but that you have an absolute contempt for religion.

But back to the topic: to reverse your original question, is it conducive to society to grant people ins via equality legislation? Except in the most egregious situations, I think not. Having a photographer refuse to do your wedding for whatever reason does not to me appear to be egregious enough to use the force of law to compel him to do that which he does not want to do.  Besides, why anyone would want their wedding photos done by someone who would have no reason to do his best is something I don't understand.

Its posts like this that make me think you don’t understand the use of humour (or perhaps even read what was written) to make a serious point Wink The ‘serious hat’ version of what I said is this. Why is religious conscientious exemption held higher in law (and the answer to this is partly tradition) than philosophical conscientious exemption? For example, in Britain, Quakers could generally successfully argue for being exempt from the draft during the Great War, Quaker Socialists could argue on account of their Quakerism, but Socialists couldn’t on account of their socialism. Secondly why are these objections entirely subjective? If the vast majority of Christians and people of other faiths can operate in society without needing to utilise any faith based objection even if granted to them, why do other people of faith need them? Is it really their faith that motivates them or is it perhaps simply a personal objection that would have no legal traction unless it was wrapped up in religious rhetoric?

In short should homophobic, sexist or racist reactions ‘claimed’ by the person who espouses them as a facet of their manifestation of religious belief (even though other people who manifest that belief do not espouse those views) be classifiable in law as a ‘credible’ homophobic, sexist or racist act because the espouser appeals to religion?

There is a difference between a religious ritualistic requirement and a social response. There is no ritualistic requirement for a Christian to prohibit a gay person from utilising their services (or by permitting them, ceases to be able to ‘act Christian’ as a result)
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afleitch
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2013, 12:44:13 PM »

No moreso than anti-gay laws. My denomination has gay marriage,  and I strongly believe that being against 100% full equality is a sin.

Being against marriage equality is the right thing based on the whole of scripture. These gay rights laws are an undue infringement on religious freedom.

They'll be wanting the vote next. Hurumph.
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afleitch
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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2017, 06:30:55 AM »

Personally I think 'freedom to believe in random supernatural sh!t to justify x' laws trample on everyone else with inherent characteristics.
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