Updating Hymns

[DC Al Fine]

I've noticed more and more "updated" hymns. These hymns are changed, usually to remove gender pronouns, change theology or make the language more informal.

Some examples are: in Amazing Grace:
"Amazing Grace
How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me and set me free!"

What Child Is This
"Raise raise the song on high
The Virgin His mother sings her lullaby"

I'm annoyed by most of them. They tend to make the hymns more wishy washy by removing the "hard" or more graphic parts (Josh Groban's version of What Child is This removes the part about nails piercing the Saviour) and often ruin the poetry.

What are your thoughts on these updates?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Those do sound rather off.  Poetry is art.  It shouldn't be construed as something that makes a theological or social statement; it should just be.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Those do sound rather off.  Poetry is art.  It shouldn't be construed as something that makes a theological or social statement; it should just be.

I agree with this as far as it goes but I do think hymnody should at least be more or less doctrinally sound in its expressions, since it is an emotional and artistic expression of belief. And in this case 'updating' hymns by changing or eliding the challenging parts does that work a grave disservice.

The many, many, many renditions of 'We Three Kings' that completely remove the verse about myrrh more or less just because it's a downer are another great example of this, especially since that particular change results in a blatantly incomplete song.

[H. Ross Peron]

Orwellian rewriting. I also don't appreciate most "dynamic equivalence" Bible translations for the same reason.

[Wake Me Up When The Hard Border Ends]

Absolutely disgraceful, why would you want to change a hymn anyway? And even if they were changed, I'm sure most people, myself definitely included, would continue to sing the original lyrics.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Absolutely disgraceful, why would you want to change a hymn anyway? And even if they were changed, I'm sure most people, myself definitely included, would continue to sing the original lyrics.

The OP explained why. Some of its for the same reason as replacing the KJV with the NKJV or similar translations, updating dated language to make it more accessible to modern ears, even if you want no change in the theology.  For instance, I dare say if it weren't for being in the lyrics of "Amazing Grace" I doubt 'wretch' would even be in common use anymore, and even with it, it's not all that common a word. Others do so to make the language more gender inclusive, and if you go to a church that would consider making a change for those reasons, I doubt you'd stay a member long if you'd insist upon the original hymn instead of singing the new herm.

[DemPGH]

Melodic considerations aside, I don't have a problem with that. I'm not a big fan of updating old texts to reflect modern sensitivities, but the issue with religion is that it is didactic, and "a wretch like me" is just an awful concept plus a worse teaching. I would never teach or imply that humans by their "fallen nature" are "wretches" or "depraved" or whatever. And it's a really terrible thing to teach a child, so since it in a didactic context I applaud these updates.

As far as the Bible goes, I think it should be left alone - otherwise let's just update the heinous morality of Exodus through most of the OT, and if we did that we would alter an historical document. But hymns I have no issue with.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Melodic considerations aside, I don't have a problem with that. I'm not a big fan of updating old texts to reflect modern sensitivities, but the issue with religion is that it is didactic, and "a wretch like me" is just an awful concept plus a worse teaching. I would never teach or imply that humans by their "fallen nature" are "wretches" or "depraved" or whatever. And it's a really terrible thing to teach a child, so since it in a didactic context I applaud these updates.

The hymn is more the personal story of John Newton as a sinner redeemed than a theological commentary on original sin.  Of course, it is no longer fashionable to think of ourselves as sinners in need of redemption.

[Hifly]

"From Greenland's icy mountains" has been totally erased from hymnbooks, because of insensitivity towards the people who inhabit the island of Sri Lanka (Ceylon).

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Absolutely disgraceful, why would you want to change a hymn anyway? And even if they were changed, I'm sure most people, myself definitely included, would continue to sing the original lyrics.

This is a practice I've expanded to cover the entire mass, Roman Missal changes be damned.

[Hatman 🍁]

My church (United Church of Canada) has been particularly 'guilty' of this. It's peeved off my mom a bit.  But considering how liberal it is, it's no surprise.

[DC Al Fine]

Melodic considerations aside, I don't have a problem with that. I'm not a big fan of updating old texts to reflect modern sensitivities, but the issue with religion is that it is didactic, and "a wretch like me" is just an awful concept plus a worse teaching. I would never teach or imply that humans by their "fallen nature" are "wretches" or "depraved" or whatever. And it's a really terrible thing to teach a child, so since it in a didactic context I applaud these updates.

I think the issue here is that no one is forcing a church to sing a hymn with disagreeable theology. by changing the lyrics, one warps the original intent of the author and I feel that's disrespectful to the author and their work.

Take Amazing Grace. John Newton was a former slave trader. Regardless of one's views on  depravity, it's fairly obvious that Newton thought he was a wretch. Sanitizing that line cheapens his intent in writing the hymn. Again, this isn't a question of theology, but appropriate use of an author's work. There are plenty of acceptable hymns to use if one doesn't believe in original sin.

The only instance of this I've seen in my church was a Catholic hymn that contained a line about communion that was obviously Catholic. Some Protestant had changed the line to something completely unrelated that didn't work and it stuck out like a sore thumb. It cheapened the original intent of an author who fervently believed in that bread and wine are Christ's body and made an otherwise beautiful hymn sound shoddy. Rather than requiring an update, this hymn just wasn't appropriate in a Reformed setting, and should've been set aside in favour of more theologically acceptable hymns.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

My church seems to do this a lot too, and it annoys me a lot.  Some examples:

All the Way My Savior Leads Me

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(Probably done because Adventists are mortalist and don't believe people go directly to heaven or hell when they die.)

Christ the Lord is Risen Today (Second verse)

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An entire verse of "Jesus Loves Me" was changed:

Original

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Updated

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This was probably, at least in part, for the same reason as the "All the Way" one.

Rock of Ages (Last verse)

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(See above)

A classic example in the vein of the "Amazing Grace" one (one that my pastor fully acknowledged):

At the Cross

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Even Christmas carols aren't immune.  "Good Christian Men Rejoice" became "Good Christians Now Rejoice" (probably to make it more "gender neutral"), and nearly all the traditional verses of "Silent Night" (except for the first) were changed into something completely foreign.
One of things that annoys me the most, though, is when they set the hymns to music that isn't used for them in any other church.  "I Sing the Mighty Power of God" is set to a tune that I've never heard in any other denomination, as is "I Gave My Life for Thee," "My Lord and I," and "Hark the Voice of Jesus Crying," among others.  (In fact, the latter got its title changed as well, to "Hark the Voice of Jesus Calling.")  I'm assuming that most of these "new" tunes were written by Adventist composers (There are a few that I know were.)Honestly, I think the mortalist updates are unnecessary too, because even if people don't go to heaven or hell immediately after death, they do at some point after death.

I could go on and on, but simply put, hymns are poetry, and poetry is fine art.  Some of these hymns were beautiful the way they were.  Why change them?  If you disagree with the theology, then don't sing them (or those verses, if they're not in the first one.) 

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I've long since spoken out against the change made to the Battle Hymn of the Republic, so it should be no surprise that I am against this practice. Hymns are usually changed without regard to the effect of the language, watering them down and removing much of their power.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

One of things that annoys me the most, though, is when they set the hymns to music that isn't used for them in any other church.  "I Sing the Mighty Power of God" is set to a tune that I've never heard in any other denomination, as is "I Gave My Life for Thee," "My Lord and I," and "Hark the Voice of Jesus Crying," among others.  (In fact, the latter got its title changed as well, to "Hark the Voice of Jesus Calling.")  I'm assuming that most of these "new" tunes were written by Adventist composers (There are a few that I know were.) Honestly, I think the mortalist updates are unnecessary too, because even if people don't go to heaven or hell immediately after death, they do at some point after death.

Keep in mind that many older hymns were not originally associated with any particular tune.  So it's probably just that the first Adventist hymnal to use it picked "I Sing the Mighty Power of God" at a time when it had not yet become associated with any tune.  Indeed, according to hymnary.org, there are two different tunes most commonly associated with "I Sing the Mighty Power of God".  The arranger of the tune Adventists use "Varina" doesn't appear to have been an Adventist, and certainly not the composer or lyricist since  they both lived in the 18th century. According to hymnary.org the tune "Varina" is most commonly associated with the hymn "There is a Land of Pure Delight".  It was not uncommon in older hymnals to print the lyrics and score separately and use one score with several lyrics that have the same metrical scheme.  This allowed the hymnal to either be smaller or include more hymns.  It also saved money as typesetting music back then was considerably more expensive that typesetting lyrics, especially if you embed the lyrics in the music as is now customary.

The most probable course of events here is that an early Adventist hymnal included both "I Sing the Mighty Power of God" and "There is a Land of Pure Delight" at a time when the former did not yet have a customary tune associated with it. The website I keep citing in this post  has both being used in the 1941 Adventist hymnal, altho "There is a Land of Pure Delight" is not in the 1985 Adventist hymnal.  So I doubt there was any intent at separatism, at least at first.  Choosing to retain "Varina" as the tune instead of switching to either "Ellacombe" or "Forest Green" may have something to do with trying to maintain Adventist particularism, but more likely it's just that by now using "Varina" as the tune for that hymn is traditional to Adventists and with "There is a Land of Pure Delight" no longer competing for the tune, there is even less need to consider switching.  Besides, Adventists use "Forest Green" as the tune for "Eternal God, Whose Power Upholds". which is one of several common choices for that hymn.

[TJ in Oregon]

It depends on the intent. In some circumstances the verbiage can be changed without altering the hymn's meaning and it doesn't bother me there if done tastefully ('thy' vs 'your' etc). But it is rather annoying when it's intentionally twisted to downplay a theological point or the writer's sinfulness or something of that sort.

Also bear in mind, there were hymns before we used the vernacular language for religious practice and if translated into the vernacular they are obviously all updated. There is nothing wrong with this if translated well.

[they don't love you like i love you]

In an interesting variation my church did this for "Desert Song", "God is my victory and He is here" was changed to "God is my victory and always near" to remove the masculine pronoun.

[Hifly]

This is another reason why High-Church Anglican/Episcopal liturgy is so much better.

[afleitch]

I’ve selected my three favourite, one each from different denominational tastes

EPISCOPALIAN

Oh My Lord

Words by - T. Ken Theepis
Arrangement by - Donna B. Sutch, A. Prude.

Oh my Lord, you are my Lord
Because I was brought up to praise you Lord
And if I wasn’t, then when I had a spiritual crisis Lord
I followed you as the culturally dominant faith Lord
So that I need not make a theistic choice Lord
Between competing beliefs that have similar claims of revelation Lord
Because that would be uncomfortable and require effort Lord
You are my Lord

Oh my Lord, you are my Lord
I believe you were the son of god my Lord
I’m not too sure about the tombs of Jerusalem bit Lord
When thousands of cadavers met their relatives Lord
It seems a bit far fetched but I can internalise it Lord
And accuse detractors of missing the finer points Lord
Besides there must be something out there Lord
It’s you my Lord

Oh my Lord, you’re my Lord too
I have internalised shame thanks to you my Lord
So I constrain my wife, close off my children Lord
From the wider world and other ways my Lord
I hate the gays, I hate the gays Lord
So I give blow jobs at gas stations and scrub myself till I bleed my Lord
For you my Lord

I’m the Lord, yes I’m the Lord
He’s a reflection of my worldview is Lord
He’s liberal Lord, He’s conservative Lord
He’s literal Lord, He’s figurative Lord
Like’s women Lord, wants them in the kitchen Lord
Likes gays my Lord, hates fags my Lord
He’s creation Lord, he’s evolution Lord
He’s white Lord, he’s black Lord
Though being Semitic, he’s probably neither Lord

Repeat ad nauseam.

MODERN HAPPY CLAPPY

Jesus

Copyright – Valley Song Destiny Ministry
(Minimum fee for performance: £250.00)

Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus
Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus
Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus
Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus

(five minute guitar riff)

Wave my hands for Jesus
Wear band tees for Jesus
Roll about the floor for Jesus!
BRTD will probably tell me the music is nothing like this (Oh Jesus)

(hand waving and general tittery)

Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus
Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus
Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus
Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus

(lights and f-cking whistles and sh-t so people don’t really hear what’s next)

We don’t tell you this for Jesus
We’re actually a huge ministry for Jesus
That helped pressure the government in Uganda for Jesus
To enact anti gay laws for Jesus

CATHOLIC

Prolixum
Anon.

Ego ture ac traditione
Mea, et pavete ad sacerdotum
Unde male dissimulare meum
Praeterea tradidit sermo facetus satis
Amen.


And yes this is a joke, a bit of humour and hopefully a cause for a little self reflection. I didn't of course choose a Quaker hymn for obvious reasons, besides they are pretty much amazing anyway because a little self reflection over mass participation seems to yield them very insightful and sensible results.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I get it Andrew.  And I do feel sorry for you.  I hope that someday you will rise above the hatred some have misguidedly shown you in the name of religion so that you will no longer return hatred with hatred.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

One of things that annoys me the most, though, is when they set the hymns to music that isn't used for them in any other church.  "I Sing the Mighty Power of God" is set to a tune that I've never heard in any other denomination, as is "I Gave My Life for Thee," "My Lord and I," and "Hark the Voice of Jesus Crying," among others.  (In fact, the latter got its title changed as well, to "Hark the Voice of Jesus Calling.")  I'm assuming that most of these "new" tunes were written by Adventist composers (There are a few that I know were.) Honestly, I think the mortalist updates are unnecessary too, because even if people don't go to heaven or hell immediately after death, they do at some point after death.

Keep in mind that many older hymns were not originally associated with any particular tune.  So it's probably just that the first Adventist hymnal to use it picked "I Sing the Mighty Power of God" at a time when it had not yet become associated with any tune.  Indeed, according to hymnary.org, there are two different tunes most commonly associated with "I Sing the Mighty Power of God".  The arranger of the tune Adventists use "Varina" doesn't appear to have been an Adventist, and certainly not the composer or lyricist since  they both lived in the 18th century. According to hymnary.org the tune "Varina" is most commonly associated with the hymn "There is a Land of Pure Delight".  It was not uncommon in older hymnals to print the lyrics and score separately and use one score with several lyrics that have the same metrical scheme.  This allowed the hymnal to either be smaller or include more hymns.  It also saved money as typesetting music back then was considerably more expensive that typesetting lyrics, especially if you embed the lyrics in the music as is now customary.

The most probable course of events here is that an early Adventist hymnal included both "I Sing the Mighty Power of God" and "There is a Land of Pure Delight" at a time when the former did not yet have a customary tune associated with it. The website I keep citing in this post  has both being used in the 1941 Adventist hymnal, altho "There is a Land of Pure Delight" is not in the 1985 Adventist hymnal.  So I doubt there was any intent at separatism, at least at first.  Choosing to retain "Varina" as the tune instead of switching to either "Ellacombe" or "Forest Green" may have something to do with trying to maintain Adventist particularism, but more likely it's just that by now using "Varina" as the tune for that hymn is traditional to Adventists and with "There is a Land of Pure Delight" no longer competing for the tune, there is even less need to consider switching.  Besides, Adventists use "Forest Green" as the tune for "Eternal God, Whose Power Upholds". which is one of several common choices for that hymn.

Thanks.  I still would rather sing "Mighty Power" with one of the traditional tunes.

[afleitch]

I get it Andrew.  And I do feel sorry for you.  I hope that someday you will rise above the hatred some have misguidedly shown you in the name of religion so that you will no longer return hatred with hatred.

This is the second time in the past week or so that you have taken what is a blatant attempt at a pastiche as being both serious and an indication of some ‘hatred’ that I have. I even gave this post a small print! The first ‘hymn’ was a pastiche of high church religion whose members have a variety of different views of a personal god. The second related to money making vapid pop-Christianity that attempts to connect with a western audience by stripping down and being modern but actually being funded by groups that have a disruptive agenda and the third (if you translated it) was actually based on a conversation I had with a parishioner. I will remember not to bother next time. I must always be serious less I be accused of some other agenda.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I get it Andrew.  And I do feel sorry for you.  I hope that someday you will rise above the hatred some have misguidedly shown you in the name of religion so that you will no longer return hatred with hatred.

This is the second time in the past week or so that you have taken what is a blatant attempt at a pastiche as being both serious and an indication of some ‘hatred’ that I have. I even gave this post a small print! The first ‘hymn’ was a pastiche of high church religion whose members have a variety of different views of a personal god. The second related to money making vapid pop-Christianity that attempts to connect with a western audience by stripping down and being modern but actually being funded by groups that have a disruptive agenda and the third (if you translated it) was actually based on a conversation I had with a parishioner. I will remember not to bother next time. I must always be serious less I be accused of some other agenda.

No, I got the intended humor, even in the Catholic one, which I did translate, but except for the Catholic one, your jokes were laughing at religion, not laughing with religion, so for me they fell quite flat.  Much as you perceive those who say they "hate the sin, but love the sinner" when referring to homosexuality as expressing a hatred towards homosexuals, your recent attempts at religious humor show what I perceive as at least a strong distaste for religion, even if it is not strong enough that you would consider it hate.  Given that many who are anti-homosexual use religion as their justification for that position, that you would reflect that hatred back is not surprising.

[The Mikado]

No, Reform Judaism, "Avinu Malkeinu" literally means "Our Father Our King."  It is stupid to recite it then say "Our Parent our Sovereign, hear our voice..."

[afleitch]

I get it Andrew.  And I do feel sorry for you.  I hope that someday you will rise above the hatred some have misguidedly shown you in the name of religion so that you will no longer return hatred with hatred.

This is the second time in the past week or so that you have taken what is a blatant attempt at a pastiche as being both serious and an indication of some ‘hatred’ that I have. I even gave this post a small print! The first ‘hymn’ was a pastiche of high church religion whose members have a variety of different views of a personal god. The second related to money making vapid pop-Christianity that attempts to connect with a western audience by stripping down and being modern but actually being funded by groups that have a disruptive agenda and the third (if you translated it) was actually based on a conversation I had with a parishioner. I will remember not to bother next time. I must always be serious less I be accused of some other agenda.

No, I got the intended humor, even in the Catholic one, which I did translate, but except for the Catholic one, your jokes were laughing at religion, not laughing with religion, so for me they fell quite flat.  Much as you perceive those who say they "hate the sin, but love the sinner" when referring to homosexuality as expressing a hatred towards homosexuals, your recent attempts at religious humor show what I perceive as at least a strong distaste for religion, even if it is not strong enough that you would consider it hate.  Given that many who are anti-homosexual use religion as their justification for that position, that you would reflect that hatred back is not surprising.

But you're basing your assumptions on the fact I make a joke at the expense of religious worship therefore I must have an underlying hatred. You don't know me, you don't know my involvement with religious and faith based groups in the work that I do here in Scotland, so I'd be grateful if you didn't jump to conclusions.