German Elections & Politics

[RedPrometheus]

I’m a delegate at the conference and I am now 100% certain that the delegates will approve the coalition talks. Andrea Nahles speech really changed the mood in the hall.

Oh, we have a V.I.P. here
Will the vote be secret or will it be like a roll call?

There might be a vote to have a secret ballot but I expect that to fail. The delegates will vote by raising their voting cards. If the majority is unclear the counting commission will count each vote.

[RedPrometheus]

I’m a delegate at the conference and I am now 100% certain that the delegates will approve the coalition talks. Andrea Nahles speech really changed the mood in the hall.

Oh, we have a V.I.P. here
Will the vote be secret or will it be like a roll call?

There might be a vote to have a secret ballot but I expect that to fail. The delegates will vote by raising their voting cards. If the majority is unclear the counting commission will count each vote.

Majority is not certain. I’m quite surprised.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

I’m a delegate at the conference and I am now 100% certain that the delegates will approve the coalition talks. Andrea Nahles speech really changed the mood in the hall.

Oh, we have a V.I.P. here
Will the vote be secret or will it be like a roll call?

There might be a vote to have a secret ballot but I expect that to fail. The delegates will vote by raising their voting cards. If the majority is unclear the counting commission will count each vote.

Majority is not certain. I’m quite surprised.

Wow! You're a fast writer. Or Phoenix is really slow.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

I’m a delegate at the conference and I am now 100% certain that the delegates will approve the coalition talks. Andrea Nahles speech really changed the mood in the hall.

Oh, we have a V.I.P. here
Will the vote be secret or will it be like a roll call?

There might be a vote to have a secret ballot but I expect that to fail. The delegates will vote by raising their voting cards. If the majority is unclear the counting commission will count each vote.

Yeah, just saw it. It's a roll call.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

It's a yes.

362 yes
279 no
1 abstention

[Middle-aged Europe]

56% of the delegates vote in favour of the grand coalition.

[Oryxslayer]

It's a yes.

362 yes
279 no

Only 56% approve...unless the SPD are able to get more at the table during the actual agreement, I don't see how this will be accepted when put to the more skeptical membership vote. But I didn't see how the party could accept it at the conference when their polls were slipping simply by agreeing to it, and they ended up finding the votes. So perhaps we will see the party dance their way to destruction.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

The socialist workers' song folklore at the end was just embarrassing and humiliating. 😡

[Former President tack50]

The socialist workers' song folklore at the end was just embarrassing and humiliating. 😡

What did they sing? The Internationale? Because that seems extremely common among socialdemocratic parties all around Europe.

[RedPrometheus]

The socialist workers' song folklore at the end was just embarrassing and humiliating. 😡

Though it is a tradition to sing it after party conferences I didn’t do it this time

[RedPrometheus]

The socialist workers' song folklore at the end was just embarrassing and humiliating. 😡

What did they sing? The Internationale? Because that seems extremely common among socialdemocratic parties all around Europe.

“wenn wir schreiten seit an seit” - it’s the official party anthem. Only the Jusos sing the International at the end of their conferences

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

The socialist workers' song folklore at the end was just embarrassing and humiliating. 😡

Though it is a tradition to sing it after party conferences I didn’t do it this time

How did you vote, Hermann?

[Tender Branson]

So, let me get this straight:

* Merkel/CDU-CSU was expected to win easily, but then had a very mediocre (= bad) election result and got humiliated.

* She then limped along to talk with the FDP and Greens, which failed utterly.

* The SPD had a chance to go into opposition and rebuild and let Merkel "auflaufen" (= in English something like "let herself disassemble along the way").

* Instead, the SPD chose to betray voters and start talks with her and contrary to Merkel it's now themselves who are aufgelaufen (=> hitting the wall at full speed in this split vote).

How stupid is the SPD ?

[Zinneke]

So, let me get this straight:

* Merkel/CDU-CSU was expected to win easily, but then had a very mediocre (= bad) election result and got humiliated.

* She then limped along to talk with the FDP and Greens, which failed utterly.

* The SPD had a chance to go into opposition and rebuild and let Merkel "auflaufen" (= in English something like "let herself disassemble along the way").

* Instead, the SPD chose to betray voters and start talks with her and contrary to Merkel it's now themselves who are aufgelaufen (=> hitting the wall at full speed in this split vote).

How stupid is the SPD ?

Schulz comes from a political culture (the EU) where he benefited greatly from his GroKo with the EPP, and he never had to look over his shoulder electorally. Also, I think his speech indicated that it was only to pursue the talks.

I personally, despite not wanting the GroKo, understand the political logic behind it, especially after what one of the German posters said on here about the average age of the SPD rank and file.

[Tender Branson]

So, let me get this straight:

* Merkel/CDU-CSU was expected to win easily, but then had a very mediocre (= bad) election result and got humiliated.

* She then limped along to talk with the FDP and Greens, which failed utterly.

* The SPD had a chance to go into opposition and rebuild and let Merkel "auflaufen" (= in English something like "let herself disassemble along the way").

* Instead, the SPD chose to betray voters and start talks with her and contrary to Merkel it's now themselves who are aufgelaufen (=> hitting the wall at full speed in this split vote).

How stupid is the SPD ?

Schulz comes from a political culture (the EU) where he benefited greatly from his GroKo with the EPP, and he never had to look over his shoulder electorally. Also, I think his speech indicated that it was only to pursue the talks.

I personally, despite not wanting the GroKo, understand the political logic behind it, especially after what one of the German posters said on here about the average age of the SPD rank and file.

The thing with constant Grand Coalitions is that they could turn into political incest (see Austria) , or in the case of Germany - political BDSM - and that people/parties will start to hate each other after a long time together.

So, it is refreshing to have another government option here and then, even if it involves the FPÖ or the AfD. Here is where I don't understand the Germans and their desire for "keeping the Far Right out of office no matter what". It seems the Germans are the Vulcans of Europe ("do not allow any emotions and kill any political incorrectness immediately because it would be a sign of instability"). On the other hand, Austrians have no such "Vulcan" reservations.

[oddfellowslocal151]

So, let me get this straight:

* Merkel/CDU-CSU was expected to win easily, but then had a very mediocre (= bad) election result and got humiliated.

* She then limped along to talk with the FDP and Greens, which failed utterly.

* The SPD had a chance to go into opposition and rebuild and let Merkel "auflaufen" (= in English something like "let herself disassemble along the way").

* Instead, the SPD chose to betray voters and start talks with her and contrary to Merkel it's now themselves who are aufgelaufen (=> hitting the wall at full speed in this split vote).

How stupid is the SPD ?

Schulz comes from a political culture (the EU) where he benefited greatly from his GroKo with the EPP, and he never had to look over his shoulder electorally. Also, I think his speech indicated that it was only to pursue the talks.

I personally, despite not wanting the GroKo, understand the political logic behind it, especially after what one of the German posters said on here about the average age of the SPD rank and file.

The thing with constant Grand Coalitions is that they could turn into political incest (see Austria) , or in the case of Germany - political BDSM - and that people/parties will start to hate each other after a long time together.

So, it is refreshing to have another government option here and then, even if it involves the FPÖ or the AfD. Here is where I don't understand the Germans and their desire for "keeping the Far Right out of office no matter what". It seems the Germans are the Vulcans of Europe ("do not allow any emotions and kill any political incorrectness immediately because it would be a sign of instability"). On the other hand, Austrians have no such "Vulcan" reservations.

Yes, what could possibly make the Germans hesitant about the Far Right?

[Tender Branson]

So, let me get this straight:

* Merkel/CDU-CSU was expected to win easily, but then had a very mediocre (= bad) election result and got humiliated.

* She then limped along to talk with the FDP and Greens, which failed utterly.

* The SPD had a chance to go into opposition and rebuild and let Merkel "auflaufen" (= in English something like "let herself disassemble along the way").

* Instead, the SPD chose to betray voters and start talks with her and contrary to Merkel it's now themselves who are aufgelaufen (=> hitting the wall at full speed in this split vote).

How stupid is the SPD ?

Schulz comes from a political culture (the EU) where he benefited greatly from his GroKo with the EPP, and he never had to look over his shoulder electorally. Also, I think his speech indicated that it was only to pursue the talks.

I personally, despite not wanting the GroKo, understand the political logic behind it, especially after what one of the German posters said on here about the average age of the SPD rank and file.

The thing with constant Grand Coalitions is that they could turn into political incest (see Austria) , or in the case of Germany - political BDSM - and that people/parties will start to hate each other after a long time together.

So, it is refreshing to have another government option here and then, even if it involves the FPÖ or the AfD. Here is where I don't understand the Germans and their desire for "keeping the Far Right out of office no matter what". It seems the Germans are the Vulcans of Europe ("do not allow any emotions and kill any political incorrectness immediately because it would be a sign of instability"). On the other hand, Austrians have no such "Vulcan" reservations.

Yes, what could possibly make the Germans hesitant about the Far Right?

Yeah, I know ... WW2.

But what is better ?

* letting the AfD govern together with the CDU/CSU, a coalition in which the conservatives have for example 36% and the AfD 12% and would therefore get just a quarter of power and cabinet posts ? And let them make mistakes and probably fail and drop to 5% after a few years ?

* excluding them forever and let them grow ... and grow ... and grow, until they cannot be ignored anymore ? This is exactly what happened in the US: the "Deplorables" (as the incredibly stupid Hillary called them), in the shadows and being unfairly treated for a long time, did rise up and turned out in droves because they didn't want to be ignored any longer. And the result was Trump.

[Oryxslayer]

So, let me get this straight:

* Merkel/CDU-CSU was expected to win easily, but then had a very mediocre (= bad) election result and got humiliated.

* She then limped along to talk with the FDP and Greens, which failed utterly.

* The SPD had a chance to go into opposition and rebuild and let Merkel "auflaufen" (= in English something like "let herself disassemble along the way").

* Instead, the SPD chose to betray voters and start talks with her and contrary to Merkel it's now themselves who are aufgelaufen (=> hitting the wall at full speed in this split vote).

How stupid is the SPD ?

Schulz comes from a political culture (the EU) where he benefited greatly from his GroKo with the EPP, and he never had to look over his shoulder electorally. Also, I think his speech indicated that it was only to pursue the talks.

I personally, despite not wanting the GroKo, understand the political logic behind it, especially after what one of the German posters said on here about the average age of the SPD rank and file.

The thing with constant Grand Coalitions is that they could turn into political incest (see Austria) , or in the case of Germany - political BDSM - and that people/parties will start to hate each other after a long time together.

So, it is refreshing to have another government option here and then, even if it involves the FPÖ or the AfD. Here is where I don't understand the Germans and their desire for "keeping the Far Right out of office no matter what". It seems the Germans are the Vulcans of Europe ("do not allow any emotions and kill any political incorrectness immediately because it would be a sign of instability"). On the other hand, Austrians have no such "Vulcan" reservations.

Yes, what could possibly make the Germans hesitant about the Far Right?

Yeah, I know ... WW2.

But what is better ?

* letting the AfD govern together with the CDU/CSU, a coalition in which the conservatives have for example 36% and the AfD 12% and would therefore get just a quarter of power and cabinet posts ? And let them make mistakes and probably fail and drop to 5% after a few years ?

* excluding them forever and let them grow ... and grow ... and grow, until they cannot be ignored anymore ?

The main problem with this is the AfD doesn't even want a Merkel coalition, even if it was a possibility rather then political taboo. Their whole stick, aside from the anti-migrant anti-EU part, is being strong anti-Merkel. They don't want a coalition with the "cooperationist" CDU. Even if these bridges could be passed, they would still need the FDP on board to cross 50%.

No, the options right now are:

Grand Coalition (shudder)
Jamaica, or Black/Green in the event of new elections

[Tender Branson]

So, let me get this straight:

* Merkel/CDU-CSU was expected to win easily, but then had a very mediocre (= bad) election result and got humiliated.

* She then limped along to talk with the FDP and Greens, which failed utterly.

* The SPD had a chance to go into opposition and rebuild and let Merkel "auflaufen" (= in English something like "let herself disassemble along the way").

* Instead, the SPD chose to betray voters and start talks with her and contrary to Merkel it's now themselves who are aufgelaufen (=> hitting the wall at full speed in this split vote).

How stupid is the SPD ?

Schulz comes from a political culture (the EU) where he benefited greatly from his GroKo with the EPP, and he never had to look over his shoulder electorally. Also, I think his speech indicated that it was only to pursue the talks.

I personally, despite not wanting the GroKo, understand the political logic behind it, especially after what one of the German posters said on here about the average age of the SPD rank and file.

The thing with constant Grand Coalitions is that they could turn into political incest (see Austria) , or in the case of Germany - political BDSM - and that people/parties will start to hate each other after a long time together.

So, it is refreshing to have another government option here and then, even if it involves the FPÖ or the AfD. Here is where I don't understand the Germans and their desire for "keeping the Far Right out of office no matter what". It seems the Germans are the Vulcans of Europe ("do not allow any emotions and kill any political incorrectness immediately because it would be a sign of instability"). On the other hand, Austrians have no such "Vulcan" reservations.

Yes, what could possibly make the Germans hesitant about the Far Right?

Yeah, I know ... WW2.

But what is better ?

* letting the AfD govern together with the CDU/CSU, a coalition in which the conservatives have for example 36% and the AfD 12% and would therefore get just a quarter of power and cabinet posts ? And let them make mistakes and probably fail and drop to 5% after a few years ?

* excluding them forever and let them grow ... and grow ... and grow, until they cannot be ignored anymore ? This is exactly what happened in the US: the "Deplorables" (as the incredibly stupid Hillary called them), in the shadows and being unfairly treated for a long time, did rise up and turned out in droves because they didn't want to be ignored any longer. And the result was Trump.

The main problem with this is the AfD doesn't even want a Merkel coalition, even if it was a possibility rather then political taboo. Their whole stick, aside from the anti-migrant anti-EU part, is being strong anti-Merkel. They don't want a coalition with the "cooperationist" CDU. Even if these bridges could be passed, they would still need the FDP on board to cross 50%.

No, the options right now are:

Grand Coalition (shudder)
Jamaica, or Black/Green in the event of new elections

Where did I write "Merkel coalition" ? The AfD would be willing to work with CDU/CSU if Merkel were history.

And there are other people in the CDU/CSU who would be willing to work with them ... assuming the AfD is growing up a bit and becomes more disciplined, like the FPÖ.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Yeah, what Oryxslayer said... the AfD doesn't even want to govern right now.

At their last federal congress there was a guy running for the party chairmanship who supported that the AfD joins governments with other parties and in the end he wasn't elected by the delegates mainly because he wanted the AfD to enter coalitions with other parties.

At the moment, the AfD - or at least definitely a majority of the AfD - understands itself as a opposition force against "the system". Part of being a opposition force against "the system" is that you don't enter into alliances with the political parties of "the system" (which includes basically everbody else).

So, it's a moot point really.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

56% on a card vote? Christ. That is a strikingly low figure.

[RedPrometheus]

56% on a card vote? Christ. That is a strikingly low figure.

It is

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

56% on a card vote? Christ. That is a strikingly low figure.

It is

How did you vote, Hermann?

[RedPrometheus]

56% on a card vote? Christ. That is a strikingly low figure.

It is

How did you vote, Hermann?

I voted against another Grand Coalition.

[Mike88]

Forsa poll: