BART Strike: Who do you stand with?

[Sbane]

BART wants to give the workers a 12% pay raise over the next 4 years. The workers want more. I stand with BART! Hopefully cooler heads will prevail soon or I hope Governor Brown forces them back to work. And the legislature should draw up legislation preventing such strikes in the future.

[Sbane]

Yeah, because getting both sides of the story is moderate heroism.

[Sbane]

BART wants to give the workers a 12% pay raise over the next 4 years. The workers want more.

After not having a pay raise for the last 5, yes.

How much inflation was there during those 5 years though? It was the recession years and many people didn't get raises during that time.

[Sbane]

Yeah, because getting both sides of the story is moderate heroism.

There are not "two sides" to this story.

That's one of the most ridiculous things I have heard in a while. Of course there are two sides to the story. You just reflexively support the unions every single time so maybe for you there is only one side.

Anyways, these people are salaried, right? I have a solution to the mess. Give them the pay raise they want. After all I realize all too well how hard it is to live in the Bay Area. But in return they agree to run the trains till 3 at night with no extra pay. I think that would be a win-win-win scenario. Management likes it, riders like it and the workers make enough to live well.

[Sbane]

BART wants to give the workers a 12% pay raise over the next 4 years. The workers want more.

After not having a pay raise for the last 5, yes.

How much inflation was there during those 5 years though? It was the recession years and many people didn't get raises during that time.

So everyone should get f**ked? How dare the BART strikers ask to be paid what they're worth! We need more, not less, people willing to stop working until they get what they deserve.

Why don't they just get market rates then. Then they would get what they deserve.

[Sbane]

BART wants to give the workers a 12% pay raise over the next 4 years. The workers want more.

After not having a pay raise for the last 5, yes.

How much inflation was there during those 5 years though? It was the recession years and many people didn't get raises during that time.

Inflation was at 3% in 2011 and 2.7% in 2009.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

[Sbane]

Also, as a former fairly regular BART user, prices are already pretty damn high. I don't blame the workers for all of it, but at least they can agree to technology improvements which will lower costs and lead to greater productivity for them, which will naturally lead to higher wages. And BART should start running till 3 or 4 at night. Perhaps they can charge extra from midnight onwards like the DC metro. It would be worth it.

[Sbane]

However, the real sticking point here is the "work rules" argument: should BART be allowed to upgrade to paperless systems that replace administrative jobs (yes, of course) and should BART employees be allowed to cut down their trips and still get paid the same or more (of course not)?

Ah, I was reading about the work rules thing but didn't realize what it entailed. This makes the worker's position even more illogical. I don't see how anyone can defend this.

[Sbane]

Because ensuring your wage and working conditions offer security and comfort takes precedence over temporary inconveniences of other workers. 'Leftists' opposed to strikes on the basis they'd inconvenience workers are essentially opposed to strikes full stop.

BART wants to give the workers a 12% pay raise over the next 4 years. The workers want more.

After not having a pay raise for the last 5, yes.

How much inflation was there during those 5 years though? It was the recession years and many people didn't get raises during that time.

So everyone should get f**ked? How dare the BART strikers ask to be paid what they're worth! We need more, not less, people willing to stop working until they get what they deserve.

Why don't they just get market rates then. Then they would get what they deserve.

And you accuse TNF of ridiculous posts?

You have a problem with the market dictating wages? That is a ridiculous position in my opinion. That is why I support greater technology advances so that BART workers can be more productive and earn greater wages. Run the train till 3 at night!

[Sbane]

Yeah, there's a lot of poor people in Oakland, Hayward and Richmond who depend on BART to get around. What are they supposed to do now? Take a taxi?

[Sbane]

Because ensuring your wage and working conditions offer security and comfort takes precedence over temporary inconveniences of other workers. 'Leftists' opposed to strikes on the basis they'd inconvenience workers are essentially opposed to strikes full stop.

BART wants to give the workers a 12% pay raise over the next 4 years. The workers want more.

After not having a pay raise for the last 5, yes.

How much inflation was there during those 5 years though? It was the recession years and many people didn't get raises during that time.

So everyone should get f**ked? How dare the BART strikers ask to be paid what they're worth! We need more, not less, people willing to stop working until they get what they deserve.

Why don't they just get market rates then. Then they would get what they deserve.

And you accuse TNF of ridiculous posts?

You have a problem with the market dictating wages? That is a ridiculous position in my opinion. That is why I support greater technology advances so that BART workers can be more productive and earn greater wages. Run the train till 3 at night!

So you oppose minimum wage too? I think any argument starting with workers relying on the market to get what they deserve is transparently absurd. But at this point we can add the notion that they'll be the automatic beneficiaries of any increased productivity and squeezing more hours out of them, unpaid, to that heap of ridiculousness, as well.

The minimum wage does have consequences as well. There are less jobs at the lower end of the spectrum due to the minimum wage. And prices are higher. But people will tolerate higher prices if that means workers can get enough money to survive. This situation is different. BART employees are paid fairly well. Not exceedingly well, but not too bad. And the biggest sticking point right now is that a bunch of paper pushers who could be eliminated with technology are being protected by the unions. That leads to less pay for the people running the trains, and higher costs for passengers. Why should I pay for inefficient, unnecessary jobs?