o hai

[President Tyrion]

2. The personal message I sent to Marnetmar never said it was  secret and should he have decided to move to the mideast, it would have been a little obvious when it happened.

Then why did you post this?

I don't recall ever receiving a PM from you, would you mind sending it again?

Greetings

I wanted to ask you to consider re-registering in the Mideast, PJ recommended I talk to some of you guys about this.  This is off-record, meaning don't tell anyone about this invite, even if you trust them.  As you may or may not be aware, the region has recently been re-energized by the abortion debate after the Federalist majority in the Assembly, with the support of Governor ZuWo, tried to ram through a number of harsh restrictions on abortion rights (including a 25 year jail sentence for women who get abortions for reasons other than rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother).  As a Progressive, you'd be a natural ally for the center-left coalition in the region which includes both members of the Progressive Union and reasonable and respectful Laborites.  Most importantly, you'd be a critical vote against the extreme policies the region's Federalists have tried to ram through.  We're gonna make a strong push to take back the Assembly and possibly the Governorship, but we'll need your support!  Thoughts?  Thanks and Dave bless

I recieved the PM from Mr. X, not you.

Ok but my point is, if you didn't receive a PM from me, why did you post this?

PJ recommended I talk to some of you

Those are Mr. X's words that Marnetmar posted.

[Adam Griffin]

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

1. I am very sorry to all the Federalists who feel as though they were betrayed by PRO. However, I must point out Lumine and Superique had no idea this was even going on. As far as voting for them, your decision should not be changed by this incident.
2. The personal message I sent to Marnetmar never said it was  secret and should he have decided to move to the mideast, it would have been a little obvious when it happened.

It is a natural reaction and one shared by more then just Federalists I would imagine PJ. As I recall there are Pro-Life PROs as well as others who would have issues with it. Of course Lumine and Superique were out of the loop and that is why I actually sympathize greatly with them. I was denied votes as well during the RPP scandals of October 2009, which was stuff I opposed and tried to stop so I know what it is like. That is why a party's members should avoid these kinds of tactics for that reason, because their members will pay the price when it gets exposed and fellow members thus have an obligation to each other to keep things on the up and up.

One of the problems with the Pacific is no one ever has had the patience to build up a competative force there. They always just leave, which in turn makes it more boring and encourages more people to leave. Why would a Progressive Union member want to deprive a region of its own membership after having just come off the closest Regional Senate election in the country involving a Progressive Union member?

3. @ ZuWo: The following American Federalists are not registered in their home state IRL:

Goldwater
Dereich
Jack Enderman
SPC
PiT
MilesC56
Sbane

Atleast three of them are in the same region as their homestates. Dereich and sbane only recently left their home states for other states in the same region. Sbane may even have done it to fill in the gaps on the "Save our States" project thing, but I cannot recall.

PiT and SPC have been in the south for years and have had a strong connection to the place and its history and at the time they left, the Pacific was hardly hospitable territory if you weren't on bgwah's christmas card list.

a. I am also deeply sorry to all Progressives. The ones you have referred to have received my apologies in private.

b. Regardless of the reason, my point is that people don't have to register in their home state. Doesn't Sbane live in Tennessee IRL?

Oh yeah, forgot all about that. I always associate him with California still.

[Donerail]

Dereich
Jack Enderman
SPC
PiT

The former two were registered in their home states - they only moved because you posted a thread whose title involved a lot of capital letters imploring them to move to Mississippi and Puerto Rico. Otherwise they'd still be registered in that same state. The latter two have a long-time connection to this region and have been in the South longer than you've been around.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

what the f[inks] is going on here

[Sbane]

1. I am very sorry to all the Federalists who feel as though they were betrayed by PRO. However, I must point out Lumine and Superique had no idea this was even going on. As far as voting for them, your decision should not be changed by this incident.
2. The personal message I sent to Marnetmar never said it was  secret and should he have decided to move to the mideast, it would have been a little obvious when it happened.

It is a natural reaction and one shared by more then just Federalists I would imagine PJ. As I recall there are Pro-Life PROs as well as others who would have issues with it. Of course Lumine and Superique were out of the loop and that is why I actually sympathize greatly with them. I was denied votes as well during the RPP scandals of October 2009, which was stuff I opposed and tried to stop so I know what it is like. That is why a party's members should avoid these kinds of tactics for that reason, because their members will pay the price when it gets exposed and fellow members thus have an obligation to each other to keep things on the up and up.

One of the problems with the Pacific is no one ever has had the patience to build up a competative force there. They always just leave, which in turn makes it more boring and encourages more people to leave. Why would a Progressive Union member want to deprive a region of its own membership after having just come off the closest Regional Senate election in the country involving a Progressive Union member?

3. @ ZuWo: The following American Federalists are not registered in their home state IRL:

Goldwater
Dereich
Jack Enderman
SPC
PiT
MilesC56
Sbane

Atleast three of them are in the same region as their homestates. Dereich and sbane only recently left their home states for other states in the same region. Sbane may even have done it to fill in the gaps on the "Save our States" project thing, but I cannot recall.

PiT and SPC have been in the south for years and have had a strong connection to the place and its history and at the time they left, the Pacific was hardly hospitable territory if you weren't on bgwah's christmas card list.

a. I am also deeply sorry to all Progressives. The ones you have referred to have received my apologies in private.

b. Regardless of the reason, my point is that people don't have to register in their home state. Doesn't Sbane live in Tennessee IRL?

Yeah, but I have spent most of my life in California and I have been registered in the Pacific since I was living there.

Or look at Xahar. Even though he doesn't live in the Pacific IRL anymore, I wouldn't consider it strategic registration for him to be in the Pacific because he has been registered there for a whole now, and grew up in California IRL. He even lost many regional Pacific Senate elections.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

PJ told me prior to my PM, that he'd PMed Marnetmar about this and not heard back, but whatever.  It doesn't really matter much to me at this point, some people whose forum friendship I valued don't feel they can trust me any more, and that's what I'm upset about.  The point is that we shouldn't have been doing this and it reflects badly on all involved.  I include Marnetmar in that category, btw, because the more I think about it, it really wasn't right of him to post this either (especially given his reason for posting the PM).  I don't know what the deal is with him not receiving a PM from PJ, all I know about that is what PJ told me.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Dereich
Jack Enderman
SPC
PiT

The former two were registered in their home states - they only moved because you posted a thread whose title involved a lot of capital letters imploring them to move to Mississippi and Puerto Rico. Otherwise they'd still be registered in that same state. The latter two have a long-time connection to this region and have been in the South longer than you've been around.

     I started off in the Pacific, and within a month moved to the South to take part in a rising conservative movement there. Nobody asked me to move; I just saw a cause and ran with it.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Yes, please don't lump people like PiT and SPC into this argument. No one asked them to move to the south. They joined the region during it's RENAISSANCE, where myself and many others brought it back from the brink of destruction and death. It is something we are all very proud of. I am offended that you have the audacity drag them down into the pits of hell with you and the PU!

[Anna Komnene]

Duke before the election:  I love everyone.  Everyone loves me.  Let's have a group hug. 

Duke after the election:  Burn in hell Progressive Union!!!

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Surely you smell the satire in my posts, Siren. If you don't, it's going to be a long four months

[Marnetmar]

I include Marnetmar in that category, btw, because the more I think about it, it really wasn't right of him to post this either (especially given his reason for posting the PM).  I don't know what the deal is with him not receiving a PM from PJ, all I know about that is what PJ told me.

I'm afraid I don't understand. I saw dishonesty and felt that it shouldn't be kept secret.Is this an invalid reason somehow? I don't care what party it is.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Duke before the election:  I love everyone.  Everyone loves me.  Let's have a group hug. 

Duke after the election:  Burn in hell Progressive Union!!!

He's probably been hitting the adult beveridges again, man.

[PJ]

I never accused PiT, SPC, Enderman, Dereich or anyone else of strategic registration. My only point was that you don't have to be registered in your home state.

[Goldwater]

I never accused PiT, SPC, Enderman, Dereich or anyone else of strategic registration. My only point was that you don't have to be registered in your home state.

How many people were saying that you did?

[PJ]

I never accused PiT, SPC, Enderman, Dereich or anyone else of strategic registration. My only point was that you don't have to be registered in your home state.

How many people were saying that you did?

PiT defended himself and SJoyce defended Dereich and Enderman.

[Goldwater]

I never accused PiT, SPC, Enderman, Dereich or anyone else of strategic registration. My only point was that you don't have to be registered in your home state.

How many people were saying that you did?

PiT defended himself and SJoyce defended Dereich and Enderman.

No, I meant how many people were saying that you needed to be registered in your home state?

[PJ]

I never accused PiT, SPC, Enderman, Dereich or anyone else of strategic registration. My only point was that you don't have to be registered in your home state.

How many people were saying that you did?

PiT defended himself and SJoyce defended Dereich and Enderman.

No, I meant how many people were saying that you needed to be registered in your home state?

ZuWo:

For a long time there has been a more or less silent agreement in Atlasia that people should register in their real-life homestates. .

[Goldwater]

I never accused PiT, SPC, Enderman, Dereich or anyone else of strategic registration. My only point was that you don't have to be registered in your home state.

How many people were saying that you did?

PiT defended himself and SJoyce defended Dereich and Enderman.

No, I meant how many people were saying that you needed to be registered in your home state?

ZuWo:

For a long time there has been a more or less silent agreement in Atlasia that people should register in their real-life homestates. .

Ah, I missed that. Although you should keep in mind that ZuWo doesn't speak for all opponents of strategic registration.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The purpose is to reduce the occurence of strategic Registration. If they are in the same Region as their home states, then it matters less so. It also allowed for mass recruitment drives on a non-partisan basis to occur, like the ones that Fritz pushed as President, without the concern that it would be hijacked by partisans in the process.

[PJ]

I never accused PiT, SPC, Enderman, Dereich or anyone else of strategic registration. My only point was that you don't have to be registered in your home state.

How many people were saying that you did?

PiT defended himself and SJoyce defended Dereich and Enderman.

No, I meant how many people were saying that you needed to be registered in your home state?

ZuWo:

For a long time there has been a more or less silent agreement in Atlasia that people should register in their real-life homestates. .

Ah, I missed that. Although you should keep in mind that ZuWo doesn't speak for all opponents of strategic registration.

I myself am normally not a fan of strategic registration, and well I have worked to recruit citizens for PRO, I have never told them which region to move to. This occurrence, which I deeply regret, was not party business.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I never accused PiT, SPC, Enderman, Dereich or anyone else of strategic registration. My only point was that you don't have to be registered in your home state.

How many people were saying that you did?

PiT defended himself and SJoyce defended Dereich and Enderman.

No, I meant how many people were saying that you needed to be registered in your home state?

ZuWo:

For a long time there has been a more or less silent agreement in Atlasia that people should register in their real-life homestates. .

Ah, I missed that. Although you should keep in mind that ZuWo doesn't speak for all opponents of strategic registration.

     I would point out that he said "should", not "should always" or "must", suggesting that it is more of a general prescription than an absolute one. I tend to agree with his statement, but it is each voter's right to register wherever. I made a decision to move to Louisiana, because it was something that I wanted to do.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I include Marnetmar in that category, btw, because the more I think about it, it really wasn't right of him to post this either (especially given his reason for posting the PM).  I don't know what the deal is with him not receiving a PM from PJ, all I know about that is what PJ told me.

I'm afraid I don't understand. I saw dishonesty and felt that it shouldn't be kept secret.Is this an invalid reason somehow? I don't care what party it is.

I'm not gonna leak the PM, but that certainly wasn't the impression I got.  That may have been part of it, but it didn't sound like why you said you leaked it.  IIRC, you said you thought it would be fun and humorous to play Julian Assange when I asked you what would be gained from ruining my reputation and humiliating me in public over this since I had already told you that I regretted it and wasn't going to do it again (I forget the exact words, and no, you don't have permission to post those PMs just because I alludes to them) even before I knew you leaked it.  I could be wrong, but that doesn't sound like moral outrage so much as having fun at someone else's expense simply because you could.  Also I did let you know at least once (possibly twice, I forget) that posting PMs was against site policy, so it isn't like you didn't know better.  I think it is against ToS to post them, or at least gets you death points, but I could be wrong. 

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Oh I am pretty sure he is one PM to Gustaf or Jedi away from it being deleted. Not surei f that means death points since I cannot recall whether that was done in the more recent examples on this board and most the instances that I recall were prior to the system's introduction. But it will definately be deleted.

Also this thread may end up locked as well.

[Marnetmar]

I include Marnetmar in that category, btw, because the more I think about it, it really wasn't right of him to post this either (especially given his reason for posting the PM).  I don't know what the deal is with him not receiving a PM from PJ, all I know about that is what PJ told me.

I'm afraid I don't understand. I saw dishonesty and felt that it shouldn't be kept secret.Is this an invalid reason somehow? I don't care what party it is.

I'm not gonna leak the PM, but that certainly wasn't the impression I got.  That may have been part of it, but it didn't sound like why you said you leaked it.  IIRC, you said you thought it would be fun and humorous to play Julian Assange when I asked you what would be gained from ruining my reputation and humiliating me in public over this since I had already told you that I regretted it and wasn't going to do it again (I forget the exact words, and no, you don't have permission to post those PMs just because I alludes to them) even before I knew you leaked it.  I could be wrong, but that doesn't sound like moral outrage so much as having fun at someone else's expense simply because you could.  Also I did let you know at least once (possibly twice, I forget) that posting PMs was against site policy, so it isn't like you didn't know better.  I think it is against ToS to post them, or at least gets you death points, but I could be wrong. 

You pointed out to me that this was a simulation game and wasn't to be taken seriously, so the mindset had shifted. In said simulation, I see an action that is morally wrong and expose it.