Cold Climates

[Filuwaúrdjan]

...and there are poor people everywhere.
The Urban/Suburban-Rural divide seems much stronger in Norway than in most other countries I've looked at.
As far as I can tell the only right wing rural areas are farming areas in Southern Norway and the only particulary left wing cities are Trondheim and Tromso (both Northern).
Oslo and Bergen are both right wing, although it's all relative and the Scadinavian "right" is centre-left on an internation scale.
Even the Progress Party would be considered moderate anywhere outside Scandinavia.

BTW is there a reason why The Norwegian Labour Party includes the word "the" in it's abbreviation? (DNA)?

[Gustaf]

...and there are poor people everywhere.
The Urban/Suburban-Rural divide seems much stronger in Norway than in most other countries I've looked at.
As far as I can tell the only right wing rural areas are farming areas in Southern Norway and the only particulary left wing cities are Trondheim and Tromso (both Northern).
Oslo and Bergen are both right wing, although it's all relative and the Scadinavian "right" is centre-left on an internation scale.
Even the Progress Party would be considered moderate anywhere outside Scandinavia.

BTW is there a reason why The Norwegian Labour Party includes the word "the" in it's abbreviation? (DNA)?

Nowegians are stupid...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Ha! It would make sense... except for the fact that like all Scandinavian countries Norway has a very high literacy rate and so on...

Maybe it was incase a break-away group was formed?

I'd guess that it's traditional now...

BTW all Scandinavian parties have nice logo's

[Gustaf]

Ha! It would make sense... except for the fact that like all Scandinavian countries Norway has a very high literacy rate and so on...

Maybe it was incase a break-away group was formed?

I'd guess that it's traditional now...

BTW all Scandinavian parties have nice logo's

Have you seen the "M" of the Swedish Conservatives? I find that pretty ugly, but that's my opinion....

Sweden is over-loaded with jokes about Norwegians where the overall theme is that they're stupid, so that's the origin of my comment...most countries have some stereotypical group which is supposedly dum. But I was not serious of course...I've never been good at abbreviations, so I don't know why they include that D. But Norwegians are kind of fond of their traditions, so it might be something like that. The DNA is kind of tragic, they used to be the most dominating labour Party in the world, but after a defeat in the 1960s they've become one of the weakest in Scandinavia.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

They have been recovering recently (up to 30% with an 8% lead over the FrP in the most recent poll I've seen, and they won the recent local elections. But the Christian Democrats seem to have imploded recently), but they could really do with the SV disbanding.
Or the introduction of FPTP which would result in the same thing.
The problem with PR is that it fragments the political landscape, with FPTP the DNA would score about 10% higher.
But they do seem to have (finally) turned the corner and should win next years elections.
But the future looks bleak for both the Christian Democrats and Venstre.

The Swedish conservatives logo is quite ugly, but the rest of the parties all have nice logo's

[Gustaf]

They have been recovering recently (up to 30% with an 8% lead over the FrP in the most recent poll I've seen, and they won the recent local elections. But the Christian Democrats seem to have imploded recently), but they could really do with the SV disbanding.
Or the introduction of FPTP which would result in the same thing.
The problem with PR is that it fragments the political landscape, with FPTP the DNA would score about 10% higher.
But they do seem to have (finally) turned the corner and should win next years elections.
But the future looks bleak for both the Christian Democrats and Venstre.

The Swedish conservatives logo is quite ugly, but the rest of the parties all have nice logo's

Well, DNA (that abbreviation looks funny, it's never used in Sweden) has been going up and down a lot in polls over the last years. The problem in Norway is unusual, in Sweden we have a very stable situation!

The joking aside, we do have two political blocs and one of them wins and that's that. In Norway they have messed up, b/c they have a strong populist party (Fremskrittspartiet, FrP) which no one wants to cooperate with, a weak left and a divided right. That makes for a lot of trouble. I wouldn't expect SV to dissolve, most Nordic countries have a socialist party of some sort outside the main social democratic party. If they united they would get faction fights, and the party's appeal to centrist voters would lessen. In Sweden the socialists, V, have to cooperate with SAP, so they have always been ignored by SAP, which knows that they will get the support anyway.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Norwegian politics is very unstable at the moment; for about a month last year the SV led in the polls...

[Gustaf]

Norwegian politics is very unstable at the moment; for about a month last year the SV led in the polls...

Yes, I remember that...Norwegian politics has been unstable ever since the "election of discontent" in 1973, when FrP got elected to parliament. But has gone worse over the last 5-10 years. They actually had a goverment coalition with only 25% of the seats in parliament and, I think, none of the THREE biggest parties included. That's kind of tough to govern with.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Remember: It would be worse were it not for the fact that the Storting has fixed election dates that can't be changed...
If it didn't the current government would have fallen ages ago...

I hope that after the past 2 years of instability the Norwegian electorate gives both the DNA and H better numbers, but the SV cut into the DNA's numbers and H is part of the current (and extremly unpopular) government...

[Gustaf]

Remember: It would be worse were it not for the fact that the Storting has fixed election dates that can't be changed...
If it didn't the current government would have fallen ages ago...

I hope that after the past 2 years of instability the Norwegian electorate gives both the DNA and H better numbers, but the SV cut into the DNA's numbers and H is part of the current (and extremly unpopular) government...

Oh yes, I had forgotten about tha fascist rules of Norway. It makes for a lot of fun though...

Even a revival of the major parties would not cure it completely. As long as FrP is around, and as long as the Norwegian right is fractioned, they will have immense trouble getting stability.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Maybe when Hagen dies...

[Gustaf]

Maybe when Hagen dies...

haha, lol!

[NHPolitico]

It was 5 (F) below zero this morning in MN and I don't feel any more liberal.  Maybe there was a tendency for left-leaning northern europeans to settle in similar climates when they migrated to other countries?  

I think the cold makes people more industrious. They work faster.  They make more money and they feel guilty about it and vote Democrat.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Ah? The old Calvinist work ethic?

[Gustaf]

Ah? The old Calvinist work ethic?

That has traditionally been very strong in Sweden, but is weakening due to "progressive" social policies from the state.

I will restate what I said before: cold climates give you decent countries and people. The rest is hard to prove.

[Huckleberry Finn]

A little Finnish rural-urban perspective...

In Finland we have probably world's strongest rural party: Finnish Centre. It's old farmers party which currently represents interest of all rural people, not only farmers. (Party support goverment's (and EU's) subventions and services from countryside but it is very conservative on environmental issues) Party have quite popular also in small towns. It also has been support by urban people who have rural background.
Normally it gets over 20 percent of vote in national election. In many small farming municipalities it gets over 50 even in even over 70 percent of vote. In our capital Helsinki it gets only 5 percent.

At present it is biggest party and leading one in coalition cabinet (with Social Democrats) after its long opposition period.

In social issues Centre is more conservative than urban right-wing National Coalition Party. (There is only one rural area where Coalition Party has been strongly support) But in the economical issues Finnish Centre is truly centrist party. (In USA surely left liberal)

Right-wing (in USA surely moderate) Coalition Party has been mostly support by urban middle-class voters and entrepreneurs (18-23 % of vote)

Social Democrats' (21-25%) votes come of course from working class and more and more growing middle-class. (If you are middle-class dude with working class background you will often vote for Left) There are some rural areas with forest industry where Social Democrats are fairly popular, but mainly their votes come from cities.

Particular trait in Finnish political landscape is so- called "backwoods Communism." There are lot of  extreme left wing voters (Nowadays in Left Alliance = former communists) in poor rural areas in north (Lapland) and east part of Finland. (without well paid forest industry jobs) Left Alliance also has strong support in industrial cities.  

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Very interesting! Finnish politics has always confused me... so thanks for clearing most of it up!

BTW do you know where I can find a map of Finnish Regions? I've got results for each of them, but I can't workout where any of them are (except for Helsinki and Lapland)

[Gustaf]

Very interesting! Finnish politics has always confused me... so thanks for clearing most of it up!

BTW do you know where I can find a map of Finnish Regions? I've got results for each of them, but I can't workout where any of them are (except for Helsinki and Lapland)

Have to read up on your Finnish geography, RP...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I think that Vaasi is in west Finland, Helsinki is easy, as is Lapland, but as Finnish is a non-Indo-European language it gets confusing

[Gustaf]

I think that Vaasi is in west Finland, Helsinki is easy, as is Lapland, but as Finnish is a non-Indo-European language it gets confusing

Yes, I know. A lot of people think Swedes can understand Finnish, but we cannot, ince the languages are not at all related.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I remember being told that Finnish is distantly related to Hungarian.

[Gustaf]

I remember being told that Finnish is distantly related to Hungarian.

Yes, it is. There is Estonian as well. And the language spoken by the Samish minority in Lappland. And then, if I'm not mistaken, there is Turkish as well.

[© tweed]

I remember being told that Finnish is distantly related to Hungarian.

Yes, it is. There is Estonian as well. And the language spoken by the Samish minority in Lappland. And then, if I'm not mistaken, there is Turkish as well.

My maid on the Alaska cruise was Estonian.

[Gustaf]

I remember being told that Finnish is distantly related to Hungarian.

Yes, it is. There is Estonian as well. And the language spoken by the Samish minority in Lappland. And then, if I'm not mistaken, there is Turkish as well.

My maid on the Alaska cruise was Estonian.

Cool...did you notice any similarities with Finnish or Hungarian?

[Huckleberry Finn]

Realpolitik. Thank for you interest! I found this site for you. There is several maps about Finland and lot of other information about our history, society, economy, nature, way of life etc. All in English.

http://virtual.finland.fi/finfo/english/finnmap.html

I also found maps of elections. But that site wasn't run very good. Also in English.

http://kartat.stat.fi/default_en.html

Finnish language is Finno-Ugrian one like are Hungarian,  Esthonian, Sami's language and several small minoritylanguages in central Russia.

Gustaf. Turkish isn't Finno-Ugrian language. It belongs to the Altaic branch of the Ural-Altaic family of languages.