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Author Topic: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS)  (Read 1408 times)
TNF
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« on: December 20, 2013, 08:04:22 pm »

FO, one of the best activist organizations of the 1960s.
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Peter the Lefty
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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2013, 08:23:20 pm »

Epic Freedom Fighters.  The youthful activist spirit of these types of groups is one of many reasons why I wish I could've come of age in the late 60's and/or early 70's, even in spite of my sexual orientation (though I realize I'd be likely to modify that viewpoint if I were taken back in time to that era.)  
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2013, 01:13:50 am »

HO. The New Left in general was terrible.
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2013, 02:02:28 am »

Massive FO obviously.

HO. The New Left in general was terrible.

^ This post is the worst.
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2013, 03:58:16 am »

I have a higher opinion of the New Left than its older counterpart. Voted FO for now but this is not based on much information; my opinion could be very easily swayed on this one.
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2013, 04:38:09 am »

Needless to say, I'm definitely not a fan.
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2013, 07:16:45 am »

They didn't like women very much.
Quote
There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation."

<snip>

Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'"

<snip>

Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out.
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2013, 09:01:03 am »

Overall, FO. I'm sure I would've strongly supported them if I were alive during the Vietnam War.
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2013, 09:03:50 am »

They didn't like women very much.
Quote
There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation."

<snip>

Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'"

<snip>

Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out.

Ugh. I wish I could change my vote.
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2013, 09:30:26 am »

They didn't like women very much.
Quote
There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation."

<snip>

Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'"

<snip>

Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out.

Ugh. I wish I could change my vote.

dead0straw puts in a quote from Wikipedia about a few events in a group that catered to college aged individuals including horny young men in a time that was overwhelmingly chauvinistic that would surely reveal the overwhelming hypocrisy of the vast majority of a national organization that had chapters all around the nation!  Wow, this changes everything!

Or, you could read the rest of the wikipedia article and realize that in every basket of apples there are a few rotten ones that the good ones at least made some efforts to address:

Quote
The 1967 convention took an egalitarian turn by eliminating the Presidential and Vice-Presidential offices and replacing them with a National Secretary (20 year old Mike Spiegel), an Education Secretary (Texan Bob Pardun of the Austin chapter), and an Inter‑organizational Secretary (former VP Carl Davidson). A clear direction for a national program was not set but they did manage to pass strong resolutions on the draft, resistance within the Army itself, and they made a call for immediate withdrawal from Vietnam. A women's liberation resolution on the issue of male chauvinism was passed by conference attendees, for the first time.

But don't let inconvenient things like facts get in the way!
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TNF
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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2013, 10:09:17 am »

They didn't like women very much.
Quote
There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation."

<snip>

Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'"

<snip>

Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out.

Ugh. I wish I could change my vote.

Dude, it was an organization that existed in the 1960s. Which, if you'll recall, was not as enlightened on issues of sex, race, etc. as the society we live in today. It's kind of ridiculous to criticize the SDS for being sexist when literally every institution in American life was sexist in the 1960s.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2013, 11:56:29 am »

Dead0man is, of course, trolling you a bit (it's his thing as I'm sure he'd gleefully admit), but he's actually got a legitimate point in this instance. With a couple of exceptions the New Left was - for the most part - stridently, shockingly and disgustingly sexist.* And also hypocritically so, because even if it was only as bad as society at large (which, alas, is not so) organisations that claim to stand for the liberation of humanity and all that really ought not relegate 50% of it to an essentially servile role.

*One reason for the... er... perhaps somewhat over-enthusiastic nature of the radical fringes of c.1970s Feminism was a pretty conscious backlash against this.
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2013, 12:04:06 pm »

Dead0man is, of course, trolling you a bit (it's his thing as I'm sure he'd gleefully admit), but he's actually got a legitimate point in this instance. With a couple of exceptions the New Left was - for the most part - stridently, shockingly and disgustingly sexist.* And also hypocritically so, because even if it was only as bad as society at large (which, alas, is not so) organisations that claim to stand for the liberation of humanity and all that really ought not relegate 50% of it to an essentially servile role.

*One reason for the... er... perhaps somewhat over-enthusiastic nature of the radical fringes of c.1970s Feminism was a pretty conscious backlash against this.

Yeah, it's personally something I have a hard time getting past.

That probably doesn't make SDS a HO, but I have a hard time calling it a FO now.
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2013, 12:52:29 pm »

Dead0man is, of course, trolling you a bit (it's his thing as I'm sure he'd gleefully admit), but he's actually got a legitimate point in this instance. With a couple of exceptions the New Left was - for the most part - stridently, shockingly and disgustingly sexist.* And also hypocritically so, because even if it was only as bad as society at large (which, alas, is not so) organisations that claim to stand for the liberation of humanity and all that really ought not relegate 50% of it to an essentially servile role.

*One reason for the... er... perhaps somewhat over-enthusiastic nature of the radical fringes of c.1970s Feminism was a pretty conscious backlash against this.

This is of course entirely true but I will point out that as far as offenders go the SDS were far from the worst. The harder Yippies and Hippie activists (important not to confuse these two with the New Left as a whole) were far worse.
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2013, 01:12:41 pm »

This is of course entirely true but I will point out that as far as offenders go the SDS were far from the worst. The harder Yippies and Hippie activists (important not to confuse these two with the New Left as a whole) were far worse.

Yes. The SDS were positively charming in comparison to that delightful crowd...
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Peter the Lefty
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2013, 01:23:38 pm »

They didn't like women very much.
Quote
There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation."

<snip>

Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'"

<snip>

Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out.
Where is this from?
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2013, 01:39:20 pm »

I was reading about them the other day.

They're the absolute worst.
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2013, 01:42:41 pm »

Their strategy seems good and they seem well-intentioned. But what they advocate for is awful in every way. HO
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2013, 01:46:06 pm »

I don't care for their views, but I think their activism helped define an important era (1967-1971ish). HO overall.

They didn't like women very much.
Quote
There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation."

<snip>

Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'"

<snip>

Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out.
Where is this from?
I don't about SDS, but wasn't the leader of the Black Panther Movement a serial rapist who fled to Algeria before returning in the 1980s and converting to Mormonism and becoming a Reagan conservative Tongue.
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2013, 01:47:04 pm »

I don't care for their views, but I think their activism helped define an important era (1967-1971ish). HO overall.

They didn't like women very much.
Quote
There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation."

<snip>

Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'"

<snip>

Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out.
Where is this from?
I don't about SDS, but wasn't the leader of the Black Panther Movement a serial rapist who fled to Algeria before returning in the 1980s and converting to Mormonism and becoming a Reagan conservative Tongue.

One of the most badass men alive, yes.
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2013, 01:49:00 pm »

Yeah, it's personally something I have a hard time getting past.

That probably doesn't make SDS a HO, but I have a hard time calling it a FO now.

Yeah, I suppose that's about right. Unsure
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2013, 01:53:39 pm »

This is of course entirely true but I will point out that as far as offenders go the SDS were far from the worst. The harder Yippies and Hippie activists (important not to confuse these two with the New Left as a whole) were far worse.

Yes. The SDS were positively charming in comparison to that delightful crowd...
Just look at the Maoist couple who kept the woman as literal slaves that were busted a few weeks ago.
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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2013, 08:51:01 pm »

I don't care for their views, but I think their activism helped define an important era (1967-1971ish). HO overall.

They didn't like women very much.
Quote
There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation."

<snip>

Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'"

<snip>

Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out.
Where is this from?
I don't about SDS, but wasn't the leader of the Black Panther Movement a serial rapist who fled to Algeria before returning in the 1980s and converting to Mormonism and becoming a Reagan conservative Tongue.

One of the most badass men alive, yes.

Eldridge Cleaver died in 1998. Badass normally has positive connotations. Do you admire this piece of scum?
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2013, 08:58:42 pm »

I don't care for their views, but I think their activism helped define an important era (1967-1971ish). HO overall.

They didn't like women very much.
Quote
There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation."

<snip>

Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'"

<snip>

Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out.
Where is this from?
I don't about SDS, but wasn't the leader of the Black Panther Movement a serial rapist who fled to Algeria before returning in the 1980s and converting to Mormonism and becoming a Reagan conservative Tongue.

One of the most badass men alive, yes.

Eldridge Cleaver died in 1998. Badass normally has positive connotations. Do you admire this piece of scum?

Advocated for civil rights, sexual freedom, limited government, and the doctrine of Jesus Christ. What's not to like?
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« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2013, 09:01:42 pm »

I don't care for their views, but I think their activism helped define an important era (1967-1971ish). HO overall.

They didn't like women very much.
Quote
There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation."

<snip>

Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'"

<snip>

Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out.
Where is this from?
I don't about SDS, but wasn't the leader of the Black Panther Movement a serial rapist who fled to Algeria before returning in the 1980s and converting to Mormonism and becoming a Reagan conservative Tongue.

One of the most badass men alive, yes.

Eldridge Cleaver died in 1998. Badass normally has positive connotations. Do you admire this piece of scum?

Advocated for civil rights, sexual freedom, limited government, and the doctrine of Jesus Christ. What's not to like?
Raping black women for practice before going on to rape and strangle white women as an act of "insurection."
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