SENATE BILL: Pacific Emergency Stimulus (Law'd)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor: TyriontheImperialist

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am definately going to need some conditions or benchmarks attached to this before I can support it.

[Maxwell]

We already spent $25 Billion, and we did not see results. We need some conditions for the money, perhaps scale it out and make it so this money isn't wasted.

[ZuWo]

The economic problems in the Pacific can be attributed to the fact that the region has not had a really stable government for a long period of time. The Pacific has already received a lot of money without any visible effects so this seems like a waste of money to me. Also, if Nyman can afford to spend such a high sum I would expect other regions to receive money as well.

[PJ]

It should be of note that according to the last budget, passed under Spamage, the Pacific has an $83 billion deficit. I have been working with others in private on formulating a budget for next year, but this, or at least a portion of this, is needed.

[Maxwell]

It should be of note that according to the last budget, passed under Spamage, the Pacific has an $83 billion deficit. I have been working with others in private on formulating a budget for next year, but this, or at least a portion of this, is needed.

I'm not against some form of Pacific Stimulus, but the fact is, we need to see progress, or, as ZuWo has stated, it's a waste of money.

[Sec. of State Superique]

The economic problems in the Pacific can be attributed to the fact that the region has not had a really stable government for a long period of time. The Pacific has already received a lot of money without any visible effects so this seems like a waste of money to me. Also, if Nyman can afford to spend such a high sum I would expect other regions to receive money as well.

This looks like Angela Merkel standing up in the European Council and saying "Hey guys I want some billion euros for me too!".

[tmthforu94]

As the Pacific Region has shown itself to be incompetent numerous times, I would prefer if the federal government specified how the money distributed in this bill would be spent. I think funding should be included for the other regions as well, as the Pacific crisis damaged the economy in each region, and if we're going to help the region that caused the crisis, we should definitely be helping those who suffered and had nothing to do with it.

[Maxwell]

Here's my amendment:

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That totals to $50 Billion, which is more than the $25 Billion originally offered in the previous stimulus, but half of the $100 Billion chunk that was offered by Senator Tyrion.

[Donerail]

If the Senate is focused on bettering the nation as a whole, wouldn't it make more sense to provide stimulus to those regions with a proven record of economic growth rather than to a basket case that's gone through this before with basically no results? The Pacific's flaws are structural, not financial - either address the underlying flaws that have prevented them from making good use of previous attempts at a solution, or provide that money to those regions where it will be put to good use. Any other course would be irresponsible.

[President Tyrion]

Maxwell, I cannot accept your amendment as friendly. I see a shortfall in excess of $80 billion in the Pacific, so perhaps that should be the starting point. I would accept a $20 billion initial stimulus, with 3 more planned $20 billion packages, pending additional Senate approval.

A few notes:
1. I didn't intend for this to be a no-strings attached sort of bill. I was just trying to get this to the floor.

2. I don't mind providing other regions with stimulus funds, but we shouldn't look like stimulus packages as a treat for good behavior. Spending is meant to be a recession reduction tool, not a reward. I know some of you are worried that this might create some perverse incentives, so I am totally willing to regulate the usage of this money to address those concerns.

3. The Pacific does have flaws besides the financial, but there's an obvious budget shortfall, there, so it's certainly worth addressing.

4. The Pacific Region has a miserable credit rating. Forcing the Pacific to borrow on its own is a bad, bad idea, because the interest rates in the region will be enormous. Meanwhile, the federal government can cover the annual shortfall while leveraging its AAA credit rating, which is a net savings. Do note that the Pacific up to a certain point has to spend, so there's no reason to be tight-fisted when the region is on the brink of default.

[Maxwell]

Maxwell, I cannot accept your amendment as friendly. I see a shortfall in excess of $80 billion in the Pacific, so perhaps that should be the starting point. I would accept a $20 billion initial stimulus, with 3 more planned $20 billion packages, pending additional Senate approval.

A few notes:
1. I didn't intend for this to be a no-strings attached sort of bill. I was just trying to get this to the floor.

2. I don't mind providing other regions with stimulus funds, but we shouldn't look like stimulus packages as a treat for good behavior. Spending is meant to be a recession reduction tool, not a reward. I know some of you are worried that this might create some perverse incentives, so I am totally willing to regulate the usage of this money to address those concerns.

3. The Pacific does have flaws besides the financial, but there's an obvious budget shortfall, there, so it's certainly worth addressing.

4. The Pacific Region has a miserable credit rating. Forcing the Pacific to borrow on its own is a bad, bad idea, because the interest rates in the region will be enormous. Meanwhile, the federal government can cover the annual shortfall while leveraging its AAA credit rating, which is a net savings. Do note that the Pacific up to a certain point has to spend, so there's no reason to be tight-fisted when the region is on the brink of default.

The Pacific should do something about its own deficit. We can't just take on the Pacific's whole bottomless deficit.

[tmthforu94]

I think Senator Maxwell's amendment has good intentions, but is probably too complex for the Senate and wouldn't be adequately followed through.

[President Tyrion]

Maxwell, I cannot accept your amendment as friendly. I see a shortfall in excess of $80 billion in the Pacific, so perhaps that should be the starting point. I would accept a $20 billion initial stimulus, with 3 more planned $20 billion packages, pending additional Senate approval.

A few notes:
1. I didn't intend for this to be a no-strings attached sort of bill. I was just trying to get this to the floor.

2. I don't mind providing other regions with stimulus funds, but we shouldn't look like stimulus packages as a treat for good behavior. Spending is meant to be a recession reduction tool, not a reward. I know some of you are worried that this might create some perverse incentives, so I am totally willing to regulate the usage of this money to address those concerns.

3. The Pacific does have flaws besides the financial, but there's an obvious budget shortfall, there, so it's certainly worth addressing.

4. The Pacific Region has a miserable credit rating. Forcing the Pacific to borrow on its own is a bad, bad idea, because the interest rates in the region will be enormous. Meanwhile, the federal government can cover the annual shortfall while leveraging its AAA credit rating, which is a net savings. Do note that the Pacific up to a certain point has to spend, so there's no reason to be tight-fisted when the region is on the brink of default.

The Pacific should do something about its own deficit. We can't just take on the Pacific's whole bottomless deficit.

It's not bottomless! PJ estimates it at $83 billion!

[Maxwell]

Maxwell, I cannot accept your amendment as friendly. I see a shortfall in excess of $80 billion in the Pacific, so perhaps that should be the starting point. I would accept a $20 billion initial stimulus, with 3 more planned $20 billion packages, pending additional Senate approval.

A few notes:
1. I didn't intend for this to be a no-strings attached sort of bill. I was just trying to get this to the floor.

2. I don't mind providing other regions with stimulus funds, but we shouldn't look like stimulus packages as a treat for good behavior. Spending is meant to be a recession reduction tool, not a reward. I know some of you are worried that this might create some perverse incentives, so I am totally willing to regulate the usage of this money to address those concerns.

3. The Pacific does have flaws besides the financial, but there's an obvious budget shortfall, there, so it's certainly worth addressing.

4. The Pacific Region has a miserable credit rating. Forcing the Pacific to borrow on its own is a bad, bad idea, because the interest rates in the region will be enormous. Meanwhile, the federal government can cover the annual shortfall while leveraging its AAA credit rating, which is a net savings. Do note that the Pacific up to a certain point has to spend, so there's no reason to be tight-fisted when the region is on the brink of default.

The Pacific should do something about its own deficit. We can't just take on the Pacific's whole bottomless deficit.

It's not bottomless! PJ estimates it at $83 billion!

Well, the Federal Government should not take care of all of it. I don't think that's fair for all of Atlasia to take that burden.

[tmthforu94]

If I introduced an amendment that had the following criteria, how would folks in here respond to it?
- Distributes money to all five regions for recovery, with the majority going to the Pacific.
- Require that the four other regions submit plans to the SoIA on distribution of funds.
- Require SoIA and Pacific Governor to collaborate together on a plan for Pacific funding.

This plan would give the SoIA more responsibilities, require each region's government to "work for the money", and ensures something can actually get done in the Pacific.

[President Tyrion]

Ok, how about this? It sets the baseline at $65 billion, giving the opportunity for the Pacific to make budgetary decisions to cut hopefully the entirety of the remaining $18 billion, and maybe that number can become smaller with a little bit of prestidigitation (aka, accounting).

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[President Tyrion]

Maxwell, I cannot accept your amendment as friendly. I see a shortfall in excess of $80 billion in the Pacific, so perhaps that should be the starting point. I would accept a $20 billion initial stimulus, with 3 more planned $20 billion packages, pending additional Senate approval.

A few notes:
1. I didn't intend for this to be a no-strings attached sort of bill. I was just trying to get this to the floor.

2. I don't mind providing other regions with stimulus funds, but we shouldn't look like stimulus packages as a treat for good behavior. Spending is meant to be a recession reduction tool, not a reward. I know some of you are worried that this might create some perverse incentives, so I am totally willing to regulate the usage of this money to address those concerns.

3. The Pacific does have flaws besides the financial, but there's an obvious budget shortfall, there, so it's certainly worth addressing.

4. The Pacific Region has a miserable credit rating. Forcing the Pacific to borrow on its own is a bad, bad idea, because the interest rates in the region will be enormous. Meanwhile, the federal government can cover the annual shortfall while leveraging its AAA credit rating, which is a net savings. Do note that the Pacific up to a certain point has to spend, so there's no reason to be tight-fisted when the region is on the brink of default.

The Pacific should do something about its own deficit. We can't just take on the Pacific's whole bottomless deficit.

It's not bottomless! PJ estimates it at $83 billion!

Well, the Federal Government should not take care of all of it. I don't think that's fair for all of Atlasia to take that burden.

Does my most recent amendment alleviate those concerns somewhat?

If I introduced an amendment that had the following criteria, how would folks in here respond to it?
- Distributes money to all five regions for recovery, with the majority going to the Pacific.
- Require that the four other regions submit plans to the SoIA on distribution of funds.
- Require SoIA and Pacific Governor to collaborate together on a plan for Pacific funding.

This plan would give the SoIA more responsibilities, require each region's government to "work for the money", and ensures something can actually get done in the Pacific.

I'd be fine if Superique had more responsibility in this, and I'd be fine if we distributed maybe $35 billion to the other regions (making it a round $100 billion if we include my amendment). 

[PJ]

It should be of note that not a single current Pacific officeholder (at least not until Xahar swears in) caused the 20% unemployment rate or the $83 billion deficit. That has been caused by previous office holders, and the lack of success of a five person council. I am fine with Tmth's suggestions and Tyrion's amendment. I have already been discussing this with Superique, so that would be great.

[ZuWo]

The economic problems in the Pacific can be attributed to the fact that the region has not had a really stable government for a long period of time. The Pacific has already received a lot of money without any visible effects so this seems like a waste of money to me. Also, if Nyman can afford to spend such a high sum I would expect other regions to receive money as well.

This looks like Angela Merkel standing up in the European Council and saying "Hey guys I want some billion euros for me too!".

It is likely that the Mideast will have a deficit with the next budget unless spending cuts are made. The fundamental question this bill raises is whether Atlasian regions should have an automatic right to request federal aid whenever they run into a deficit. I don't think it is the federal government's job to pay for a region's deficit, but if the Senate decides to do so I expect other regions to receive money as well. 

[Sec. of State Superique]

I'm glad that I'm a synonym for SoIA. Anyway, I was thinking about a three member committee to approve the stimulus for each region formed by me, one guy appointed by the regional executives and another appointed by the Senators....

[TNF]

Let's just merge the Pacific into the Midwest already.

[GAworth]

If I may, why don't y'all set a limit on how much of it can be spent on deficit reduction, like no more than 50% of funds appropriated can be used for reducing the regional deficit. The rest must go to economic development and lowering unemployment. I hope this idea can help put at ease the issues around the deficit.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'm glad that I'm a synonym for SoIA. Anyway, I was thinking about a three member committee to approve the stimulus for each region formed by me, one guy appointed by the regional executives and another appointed by the Senators....

No one, no one can match your success in the office. That is why, you put the mto shame.

I worry that this committee would end up like the Independent Budge Committee, which has its own synonym as well. I believe it is Super-Yank.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Hostile
Status: A vote is now open on the above amendment, Senators please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

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Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Pending Completion of prior amendment. Too much overlap here.