Canada General Discussion 1.5: The Countdown Begins
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  Canada General Discussion 1.5: The Countdown Begins
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Author Topic: Canada General Discussion 1.5: The Countdown Begins  (Read 159530 times)
MaxQue
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« Reply #475 on: April 25, 2014, 06:40:11 PM »

It's interesting that after all the criticisms from the experts and the media, Canadians still support the measures. I suppose the people who are following it closely are more likely to be against it.

I once vouched for my roommate, even though I knew he was going to vote Tory. That's how much I support the right to vote.

Also, the fact that 52% of Canadians don't care if voting is difficult disgusts me.

I think it's just more that 52% of Canadians are sufficiently comfortable and have long been sufficiently comfortable to simply not be able to grasp how difficult this can be for some people's circumstances. It's so very far outside your typical middle class Canadian's life experience to not be able to prove your identity that they simply don't get it

Yes, most middle class voters have driver's licenses. I have an expired one (I have no need or desire to drive anymore) and was lucky enough to be able to use it last summer as ID in a by-election (they didn't check whether it was valid, and I'm not sure if it even matters, as it still has a photo of me).  My partner even used her British passport! We also used some bills to prove where we lived.

In Quebec, for voting, it's clearly written in training documentation than an expired driving licence is perfectly valid.  Same thing for an expired Health card or an expired passport.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #476 on: April 25, 2014, 06:42:06 PM »

The Nova Scotia Barrister's Society will not accredit Trinity Western's law school unless they drop their same sex marriage covenant... because tolerance.

Test Act here we come Tongue

Good decision. Schools aren't allowed to dictate how students must act out of school.

Bad decision. It's not as if those students couldn't go elsewhere if they don't like the restriction, and I utterly fail to see how it prevents Trinity Western's students from being good lawyers.  The idea that we have to force people to be universally tolerant is one of the more intolerant ideas I have come across.  Now if one could actually show how TW's policy negatively impacts its students, I'd be supportive of the action against the school, but so far no one has.

In my mind, that's a violation of the Charter provision on forbidding discrimination. I doubt than Trinity Western will properly teach those notions, as it's going against their agenda.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #477 on: April 25, 2014, 07:23:25 PM »

The Nova Scotia Barrister's Society will not accredit Trinity Western's law school unless they drop their same sex marriage covenant... because tolerance.

Test Act here we come Tongue

Good decision. Schools aren't allowed to dictate how students must act out of school.

Bad decision. It's not as if those students couldn't go elsewhere if they don't like the restriction, and I utterly fail to see how it prevents Trinity Western's students from being good lawyers.  The idea that we have to force people to be universally tolerant is one of the more intolerant ideas I have come across.  Now if one could actually show how TW's policy negatively impacts its students, I'd be supportive of the action against the school, but so far no one has.

In my mind, that's a violation of the Charter provision on forbidding discrimination. I doubt than Trinity Western will properly teach those notions, as it's going against their agenda.

You doubt, but have no evidence that's the case.  Sorry, but imposing sanctions because of a hunch doesn't seem very just to me.  Any evidence that TW's students have been bad in other professions such as education as a result of that policy you object to? (Their law school has yet to open as I understand it, so obviously there's no evidence for this specific program.)

Granted, I have a firmer idea of how things work under the U.S. Constitution than under the Canadian Charter, but I fail to see how things would have changed since 2001 when the Canadian Supreme Court slapped down the British Columbia College of Teachers for trying the same thing with teacher accreditation for education students at TW.
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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #478 on: April 25, 2014, 07:27:16 PM »

It's interesting that after all the criticisms from the experts and the media, Canadians still support the measures. I suppose the people who are following it closely are more likely to be against it.

I once vouched for my roommate, even though I knew he was going to vote Tory. That's how much I support the right to vote.

Also, the fact that 52% of Canadians don't care if voting is difficult disgusts me.

I think it's just more that 52% of Canadians are sufficiently comfortable and have long been sufficiently comfortable to simply not be able to grasp how difficult this can be for some people's circumstances. It's so very far outside your typical middle class Canadian's life experience to not be able to prove your identity that they simply don't get it

Yes, most middle class voters have driver's licenses. I have an expired one (I have no need or desire to drive anymore) and was lucky enough to be able to use it last summer as ID in a by-election (they didn't check whether it was valid, and I'm not sure if it even matters, as it still has a photo of me).  My partner even used her British passport! We also used some bills to prove where we lived.

In Quebec, for voting, it's clearly written in training documentation than an expired driving licence is perfectly valid.  Same thing for an expired Health card or an expired passport.

Might be here as well. The Ontario Elections website was vague on the matter, and I was scared to ask.  I also have an expired passport, but it's 10 years old, which was from before I could even vote. (My divers license photo isn't much newer though).
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #479 on: April 26, 2014, 04:35:39 PM »

Crosstabs from the Ipsos Ontario poll: big Tory gains in SW major story.
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You kip if you want to...
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« Reply #480 on: April 27, 2014, 08:16:25 AM »

Quick question, but why do Canadian party leaders risk running in marginal seats when leaders in other Westminster systems generally come from ultra safe seats?

I'm thinking of the likes of Marois, Clark, Iggy and even Couillard running in a PQ seat.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #481 on: April 27, 2014, 08:28:42 AM »

Iggy's seat was not marginal in 2006. Clark inherited her predecessor's seat, Marois is from Quebec City, Couillard wanted to run where he lives. All the federal leaders are fine.
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Citizen Hats
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« Reply #482 on: April 27, 2014, 10:48:43 AM »

Quick question, but why do Canadian party leaders risk running in marginal seats when leaders in other Westminster systems generally come from ultra safe seats?

I'm thinking of the likes of Marois, Clark, Iggy and even Couillard running in a PQ seat.

To boot:
  • Marois won by 13 points in 2012 in Charlevoix–Côte-de-Beaupré.  Likely some animus against her that lead to her losing in 2014.
  • Previous BC Premier Gordon Campbell had always won Vancouver-Point Grey by comfortable, if not quite 'safe' margins, but Christy Clark was much less rhetorically suited to the sort of voters found in the riding and 2013 was actually the first time since 1991 that the Liberals didn't win Vancouver overall.  She had no seat when she was elected BC Liberal Leader
  • Michael Ignatieff won by ten points in 2008, and it was widely regarded as a safe seat when he got into politics.
  • Derryl Dexter in Nova Scotia had won by solid landslides in Cole Harbour prior to being tossed in 2013


It mostly seems that Canadian voters are fluid enough that safe seats simply don't remain safe for all that long.  Even out West, in landslide Tory Country, a whole crop of Tories were wiped out in 1993 by the Reform Party. 

I suppose it's notable that both Justin Trudeau and Thomas Mulcair run in seats that were recently occupied by other parties, and if either of them were to become unpopular, I suspect they too might lose their seats.  It's actually somewhat ironic, as I believe NDPer Mulcair's seat Outremont is the more tony of the two, while Trudeau's Papineau is among the poorest in Canada.

There does seem to a notion of taking the 'forward capital' approach though, where a leader gambles on the leader-effect to try to raise the fortunes of their party in an area where they are weak, such as Couillard in Roberval, or John Turner running in Vancouver Quadra in 1984, or Jean Chretien in St. Maurice, seats which it is likely might not have been won otherwise

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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #483 on: April 27, 2014, 12:14:31 PM »

Darryl Dexter in Nova Scotia had won by solid landslides in Cole Harbour prior to being tossed in 2013

Dexter got screwed by redistribution as well. A wealthy neighbourhood got tacked onto his working class seat. The seat is still lean NDP, but it isn't safe enough to protect from waves like his old one would have.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #484 on: April 27, 2014, 06:36:40 PM »

Let's not forget the classic example of John Tory running in a super safe seat in a by-election, and losing the race.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #485 on: April 28, 2014, 04:25:33 PM »
« Edited: April 28, 2014, 04:38:49 PM by MaxQue »

In Montreal, Independent and bigoted city councillor for Loyola district (Côte-des-Neiges-Notre-Dame-de-Grâce) Jeremy Searle was almost kicked out of council.

Two weeks ago, during the borough council meeting, he said than independentists were like insects needing to be exterminated.

Today, at the city council, he asked a question to the mayor and the mayor answered than he wanted an answer about that. Searle said than it had no link with the question and than the mayor had a head problem. That caused the Speaker anger and Project Montreal wanted to expell him from the council.

http://www.cjad.com/cjad-news/2014/04/28/separatists-as-insects-searle-makes-things-worse-for-himself

EDIT: We can also had than he was elected in a wierd 5-way race. 23-21-17-17-17 (Independent-Projet Montréal-Team Denis Coderre-Mélanie Joly Group-Coalition Montreal)
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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #486 on: April 28, 2014, 08:53:59 PM »

I thought NDG was a bunch of yuppies. How'd he even get a quarter of the vote?
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MaxQue
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« Reply #487 on: April 28, 2014, 09:27:24 PM »

I thought NDG was a bunch of yuppies. How'd he even get a quarter of the vote?

I posted about him in the 2013 election thread, noting he had a tendency to say wierd things and than he was born in Bristol, UK.

He is also there since decades. Reputation built in part on painting white circles around potholes in 1998 to force the city to repair them quicker.

Defeated in 1990 for the Democratic Coalition for Loyola ward. Elected in 1994 for Montrealers Party for Loyola ward, elected as an independent in 1998, reeelected as Union Montreal in 2001. Defeated when he ran for borough mayorship in 2005 (for Team Jeremy Searle). Tried coming back in 2009 in his ward, as an independent, lost, but won back in 2013.

Article about him from 2009 (in English): http://www.lesactualites.ca/01_anciensite/?site=CDN&section=page&1=C090826&2=C090826_JeremySearle
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Njall
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« Reply #488 on: April 28, 2014, 11:12:02 PM »

Looks like Prentice is actually running for PC leader.  Go figure.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #489 on: April 29, 2014, 06:36:02 AM »

Hah: PKP only boosts the PQ by 2 in a hypothetical ballot test, same as Hivon. Duceppe boosts them by 4.
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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #490 on: April 29, 2014, 08:08:17 AM »


Only way to stop Wild Rose is to elect Red Tories like Prentice. Worked with Redford. It scares any centrist voters away from voting Liberal or NDP.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #491 on: April 29, 2014, 09:07:11 AM »

Dippers have a 38/24 lead among Francophone voters, 33/32/20/12 in QC generally.
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Njall
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« Reply #492 on: April 29, 2014, 12:22:02 PM »

Breaking: Brian Mason will be stepping down as Alberta NDP leader in October.  In other words: two autumn leadership races in Alberta!
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MaxQue
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« Reply #493 on: April 29, 2014, 02:30:22 PM »


Despite a 1% lead for NDP, it would be a large lead in seats for them. Bloc might hope to gain a few seat because of NDP/Liberal division, Conservatives are obviously not going well.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #494 on: April 29, 2014, 02:42:13 PM »

Imagine the reaction if Grits are stuck in third next year. Grin On a related note, do the exit surveys ever cover ROC Francophones?
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #495 on: April 30, 2014, 11:32:40 AM »

New AB poll: Wildrose 50, Progs 21.
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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #496 on: April 30, 2014, 12:02:59 PM »


Wow. And the Liberals are in fourth!
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MaxQue
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« Reply #497 on: April 30, 2014, 01:43:54 PM »


Nothing surprising, in the aftermath of Redford resignation. It will tighten later, through.
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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #498 on: April 30, 2014, 02:19:46 PM »


Nothing surprising, in the aftermath of Redford resignation. It will tighten later, through.

The Liberals in 4th is surprising. You'd think they'd be challenging the Tories for 2nd considering.
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Citizen Hats
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« Reply #499 on: April 30, 2014, 02:22:27 PM »
« Edited: April 30, 2014, 06:33:02 PM by Citizen Hats »

Regional Projection

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