MA: Fluoridation of Water Act (Passed)

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

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Sponsor: Hifly

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

What all do you plan on having the region pay for?

[Hifly]

What all do you plan on having the region pay for?

Can you please rephrase that; I'm not familiar with American-style English. Is it directed at me?

[Hifly]

This sounds like a good idea as long as everything is regulated well.  I assume you have a scientific basis for the threshold level of fluoride?  

I'm wondering though, why limit it to cities with large populations?  These are the places we could cover with the 150k cap.

Nyman (DC)
Chicago, IL
Aurora, IL
Rockford, IL
Indianapolis, IN
Fort Wayne, IN
Louisville, KY
Lexington, KY
Baltimore, MD
Detroit, MI
Grand Rapids, MI
Kansas City, MO
St. Louis, MO
Springfield, MO
Columbus, OH
Cleveland, OH
Cincinnati, OH
Toledo, OH
Akron, OH
Virginia Beach, VA
Norfolk, VA
Chesapeake, VA
Richmond, VA
Newport News, VA
Milwaukee, WI
Madison, WI

We could probably cover about 20 more cities with a 100k cap.

Indeed, 0.7 mg/L is the recommended level by the US Department of Health and Human Services.
I put a 150,000 population threshold in place due to funding considerations, but if others are also supportive of the idea this bill can be amended to allow for a lower 100,000 threshold.
I am keen to hear what the Federalists think about this idea.

[ZuWo]

I like the idea of fluoridated water for health reasons but I admit I have no clue about the scientific details. It's great to have Assemblymembers and a Lt. Governor with an excellent background in natural sciences!

[PPT Spiral]

Allow me to pop in here and say that I strongly oppose this bill and I urge my Assemblymen to vote against it, or for the Governor to veto it if it comes his way. The costs aside, I oppose this primarily for health reasons. Consumption of fluoride has been linked to decreases in IQ, disruptions in the brain and kidney, deterioration of the bones, increases in fluorosis, and other nasty things. Fluoride is a poisonous substance to the body that shouldn't be consumed. Toothpaste use is fine and should be encouraged, but I wouldn't want this to be included in the region's water supply.

[ZuWo]

I haven't heard of these claims before and mainly commented on the issue from the point of view of dentists, who are generally in favor of water fluoridation.

[Donerail]

Allow me to pop in here and say that I strongly oppose this bill and I urge my Assemblymen to vote against it, or for the Governor to veto it if it comes his way. The costs aside, I oppose this primarily for health reasons. Consumption of fluoride has been linked to decreases in IQ, disruptions in the brain and kidney, deterioration of the bones, increases in fluorosis, and other nasty things. Fluoride is a poisonous substance to the body that shouldn't be consumed. Toothpaste use is fine and should be encouraged, but I wouldn't want this to be included in the region's water supply.

Your IQ study showed that children in high fluoride areas had lower IQ than those in low fluoride areas - specifically, if you live in an area where massive doses of fluoride seep into wells from the soil (like China) there is a negative impact on your mental health. Those levels are over 20 times what this legislation proposes. The idea that fluoride is toxic in massive doses far exceeding what's possible for you to ingest is not news. The International Agency for Research on Cancer, United States Public Health Service, National Research Council, National Health Service, and the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention all agree that fluoride is safe (and, because of the preventive health benefits, saves the government far more money than it costs to implement).

But that's just my two cents. Carry on.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

What all do you plan on having the region pay for?

Can you please rephrase that; I'm not familiar with American-style English. Is it directed at me?

Under your bill, do you want the region or the cities to pay for the construction of the fluoridation facilities?  Do you want the region or the cities to pay for the fluoridation process?

[Hifly]

What all do you plan on having the region pay for?

Can you please rephrase that; I'm not familiar with American-style English. Is it directed at me?

Under your bill, do you want the region or the cities to pay for the construction of the fluoridation facilities?  Do you want the region or the cities to pay for the fluoridation process?

Whichever is more effective and reasonable. I'm thinking the region pays for the fluoride compound and the cities for the fluoridation facilities. What do you think?

[PPT Spiral]

I haven't heard of these claims before and mainly commented on the issue from the point of view of dentists, who are generally in favor of water fluoridation.

There has consistently been decreases in dental cavities in areas that implement water fluoridation. However, a good amount of Europe has not fluoridated their water, yet the cavity rates have also steadily fallen. Beyond the benefits that fluoride gives your dental health, there are genuine questions about how it can affect your nervous, endocrine, and skeletal systems. That's where I have concern.

Your IQ study showed that children in high fluoride areas had lower IQ than those in low fluoride areas - specifically, if you live in an area where massive doses of fluoride seep into wells from the soil (like China) there is a negative impact on your mental health. Those levels are over 20 times what this legislation proposes. The idea that fluoride is toxic in massive doses far exceeding what's possible for you to ingest is not news. The International Agency for Research on Cancer, United States Public Health Service, National Research Council, National Health Service, and the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention all agree that fluoride is safe (and, because of the preventive health benefits, saves the government far more money than it costs to implement).

But that's just my two cents. Carry on.

The Environmental Protection Agency lists fluoride as a toxin for humans, and with substantial evidence for its toxicity. The study I linked to focused on children and how high-concentrated areas will damper their senses. However, something to keep in mind is that roughly half of ingested fluoride remains with healthy kidney process and it accumulates in the bones. Long-term exposure over a number of years can also pose risks down the line. There is a reason why groups like the Sierra Club have advocated reducing fluoride levels. Even the US government recommended that levels be dropped.

[Hifly]

Allow me to pop in here and say that I strongly oppose this bill and I urge my Assemblymen to vote against it, or for the Governor to veto it if it comes his way. The costs aside, I oppose this primarily for health reasons. Consumption of fluoride has been linked to decreases in IQ, disruptions in the brain and kidney, deterioration of the bones, increases in fluorosis, and other nasty things. Fluoride is a poisonous substance to the body that shouldn't be consumed. Toothpaste use is fine and should be encouraged, but I wouldn't want this to be included in the region's water supply.

I'm sorry but this is delusional claptrap; the levels of Fluoride that the population will be exposed to through water fluoridation is far far below the level required for toxic effects. The effects of my plan will be nothing but positive for the health of this region's population and any legislator with sense, whether on the Left or the Right will support this bill. I thank the Governor for understanding the significance of this plan.

[Hifly]

Mr Speaker can you please confirm whether citizens who are not members of this Assembly are still allowed to take an active part in the debate within the Assembly? It kind of ruins the point of having Assembly debates if citizens can occupy the chamber. Spiral should take his issues elsewhere; this is not the place for it.

[ZuWo]

Mr Speaker can you please confirm whether citizens who are not members of this Assembly are still allowed to take an active part in the debate within the Assembly?

I was asking myself the same thing when I was first elected to the Assembly. However, it appears to be an old custom in Atlasia that basically every citizen can post in debate threads at the regional or federal level. More often than not this has actually turned out to be helpful and constructive and in the rare cases where a poster only chimed in with the intent to troll a legislative body the problem could be solved.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

What all do you plan on having the region pay for?

Can you please rephrase that; I'm not familiar with American-style English. Is it directed at me?

Under your bill, do you want the region or the cities to pay for the construction of the fluoridation facilities?  Do you want the region or the cities to pay for the fluoridation process?

Whichever is more effective and reasonable. I'm thinking the region pays for the fluoride compound and the cities for the fluoridation facilities. What do you think?

What do you mean by "fluoride compound"?

Mr Speaker can you please confirm whether citizens who are not members of this Assembly are still allowed to take an active part in the debate within the Assembly? It kind of ruins the point of having Assembly debates if citizens can occupy the chamber. Spiral should take his issues elsewhere; this is not the place for it.

We generally allow limited debate, although citizens shouldn't badger or harass assemblymembers.  What Spiral is doing is fine.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Mr Speaker can you please confirm whether citizens who are not members of this Assembly are still allowed to take an active part in the debate within the Assembly?

I was asking myself the same thing when I was first elected to the Assembly. However, it appears to be an old custom in Atlasia that basically every citizen can post in debate threads at the regional or federal level. More often than not this has actually turned out to be helpful and constructive and in the rare cases where a poster only chimed in with the intent to troll a legislative body the problem could be solved.

Technically, they're not supposed to in the Senate.

[ZuWo]

Mr Speaker can you please confirm whether citizens who are not members of this Assembly are still allowed to take an active part in the debate within the Assembly?

I was asking myself the same thing when I was first elected to the Assembly. However, it appears to be an old custom in Atlasia that basically every citizen can post in debate threads at the regional or federal level. More often than not this has actually turned out to be helpful and constructive and in the rare cases where a poster only chimed in with the intent to troll a legislative body the problem could be solved.

Technically, they're not supposed to in the Senate.

I do this all the time and no Senator or PPT has ever told me to shut up.

[Hifly]

What do you mean by "fluoride compound"?

Fluoride is an anion (F-) and so it needs to be administered as a compound; Hexafluorosilicic Acid is the most commonly used now in the US. The acid will disassociate to form the F- anion.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

What do you mean by "fluoride compound"?

Fluoride is an anion (F-) and so it needs to be administered as a compound; Hexafluorosilicic Acid is the most commonly used now in the US. The acid will disassociate to form the F- anion.

OK, so you're saying that you want the region to buy the actual fluoride, but the individual cities will be in charge of building the fluoridation treatment and running the system, correct?

[Hifly]

What do you mean by "fluoride compound"?

Fluoride is an anion (F-) and so it needs to be administered as a compound; Hexafluorosilicic Acid is the most commonly used now in the US. The acid will disassociate to form the F- anion.

OK, so you're saying that you want the region to buy the actual fluoride, but the individual cities will be in charge of building the fluoridation treatment and running the system, correct?

Yes. Does it sound like a feasible plan to you?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

What do you mean by "fluoride compound"?

Fluoride is an anion (F-) and so it needs to be administered as a compound; Hexafluorosilicic Acid is the most commonly used now in the US. The acid will disassociate to form the F- anion.

OK, so you're saying that you want the region to buy the actual fluoride, but the individual cities will be in charge of building the fluoridation treatment and running the system, correct?

Yes. Does it sound like a feasible plan to you?

Well, we'll find out!

[DC Al Fine]

My father's a civil engineer who does consulting for water utilities. I asked him and he says that fluoridation is "A pretty trivial cost in the grand scheme of things. The bulk of your water bill goes towards maintaining infrastructure"

That said, Zuwo & Inks are concerned about losing our budget surplus, and it seems odd for us to  fund one portion of what really should be a municipal responsibility. I'd support this bill so long as the regional government isn't funding it.

[TJ in Oregon]

Are there any cities in the Mideast with a population above 150,000 that don't already fluorinate their water? In short, does this bill end up actually doing anything besides having the regions buy the fluoride instead of municipalities?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Are there any cities in the Mideast with a population above 150,000 that don't already fluorinate their water? In short, does this bill end up actually doing anything besides having the regions buy the fluoride instead of municipalities?

It's likely that it's above 75%:

[Hifly]

I can certainly testify that the level of Fluoride in water is not uniform in the Mideast. This bill would ensure that the recommended 0.7 mg/L level is adhered to by all concerned cities.