NYC General Discussion - You Hear That Giant Sucking Sound?

[Cassius]

Awful.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I don't think Simfan understands what reaction means in the political sense.

[traininthedistance]

New York’s Welfare Reactionaries
Mayor de Blasio and his HRA chief look to turn back the clock on 20 years of progress.

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http://www.city-journal.org/2014/eon0521hm.html

How could anyone be opposed to the bolded part?  We're okay with throwing up even more barriers to poor people getting an education?  Perhaps we could have a discussion about the other details... but it's hypocritical (especially for the "opportunity society" folks) and almost feudal to be opposed to that law, I think. 

Also, shame on Bloomberg.  That's really disappointing that he was opposed to it.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

New York’s Welfare Reactionaries
Mayor de Blasio and his HRA chief look to turn back the clock on 20 years of progress.

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http://www.city-journal.org/2014/eon0521hm.html

How could anyone be opposed to the bolded part?

Possibly if there is no requirement that the student make progress towards a degree and not merely attend.  But yeah, in general, I'm in favor of making access to higher education easier.  On the other hand, how can anyone support the underlined parts?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Robert Doar, the head of NYC's welfare agency under Bloomberg, wrote here about the policies the agency implemented. 

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[Simfan34]

I don't think Simfan understands what reaction means in the political sense.

I thought the title was a bit cute myself.

[traininthedistance]

Robert Doar, the head of NYC's welfare agency under Bloomberg, wrote here about the policies the agency implemented. 

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Even if that's true as a general rule, it's really sh*tty to assume that it's "right" for everyone and thus de facto close off the opportunity for upward mobility.

And, Ernest, I think that "not starving" is the sort of basic human right that shouldn't come with strings attached, at least in a society that is as advanced and wealthy as the USA, so I don't really agree with the first underlined part.  I'm not necessarily opposed to setting other sorts of conditions for other transfer payments, but food is just too basic, and just too affordable to provide.

[Antonio the Sixth]

God, right-wingers are such sad, evil people. It's terrifying.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

And, Ernest, I think that "not starving" is the sort of basic human right that shouldn't come with strings attached, at least in a society that is as advanced and wealthy as the USA, so I don't really agree with the first underlined part.  I'm not necessarily opposed to setting other sorts of conditions for other transfer payments, but food is just too basic, and just too affordable to provide.

If requiring that those able to work actually look for work to receive the dole is a string, I hate to think what you'd consider to be a rope.  Maybe instead of food stamps, we could give a supply of Soylent to those unwilling to do even that.

[Simfan34]

I like this idea.

[Simfan34]

Michael Bloomberg Blasts Ivy League For Liberal 'Censorship'
http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-bloomberg-blasts-ivy-league-for-liberal-censorship-2014-5#ixzz33FcKGdbE

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Bloomie, how truly we miss you. Although I would have liked to have heard this sort of stuff when you were in office, it is the truth, and I'm glad he's telling. We really do miss you. :cry:

[Хahar 🤔]

And, Ernest, I think that "not starving" is the sort of basic human right that shouldn't come with strings attached, at least in a society that is as advanced and wealthy as the USA, so I don't really agree with the first underlined part.  I'm not necessarily opposed to setting other sorts of conditions for other transfer payments, but food is just too basic, and just too affordable to provide.

Moreover, means testing is poor public policy in general.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

And, Ernest, I think that "not starving" is the sort of basic human right that shouldn't come with strings attached, at least in a society that is as advanced and wealthy as the USA, so I don't really agree with the first underlined part.  I'm not necessarily opposed to setting other sorts of conditions for other transfer payments, but food is just too basic, and just too affordable to provide.

Moreover, means testing is poor public policy in general.

To paraphrase Richard Titmuss (I think it was him anway) a service for the poor will always end up as a poor service.

[Torie]

And, Ernest, I think that "not starving" is the sort of basic human right that shouldn't come with strings attached, at least in a society that is as advanced and wealthy as the USA, so I don't really agree with the first underlined part.  I'm not necessarily opposed to setting other sorts of conditions for other transfer payments, but food is just too basic, and just too affordable to provide.

Moreover, means testing is poor public policy in general.

Really Xahar? Please elaborate.

[Napoleon]

And, Ernest, I think that "not starving" is the sort of basic human right that shouldn't come with strings attached, at least in a society that is as advanced and wealthy as the USA, so I don't really agree with the first underlined part.  I'm not necessarily opposed to setting other sorts of conditions for other transfer payments, but food is just too basic, and just too affordable to provide.

Moreover, means testing is poor public policy in general.

Really Xahar? Please elaborate.

Its pretty typical of "real" socialists to oppose means-testing because its a poor substitute for complete wealth redistribution and I suppose they would point to people like you and I supporting means-testing as evidence.

[Simfan34]

That's true, but I don't think Xahar considers himself a socialist. I suppose the position a lot of liberals would holds that means testing allows for people to rendered ineligible for assistance when they might actually need it (...my college tuition comes to mind ) and that, no matter how small the amount, is unacceptable.

[traininthedistance]

And, Ernest, I think that "not starving" is the sort of basic human right that shouldn't come with strings attached, at least in a society that is as advanced and wealthy as the USA, so I don't really agree with the first underlined part.  I'm not necessarily opposed to setting other sorts of conditions for other transfer payments, but food is just too basic, and just too affordable to provide.

Moreover, means testing is poor public policy in general.

Really Xahar? Please elaborate.

Al's quote right above yours, while pithy, actually explains it pretty well.  The issue (well, one of the major issues) is that means-tested policies run the danger of people who aren't eligible for them not caring about them, and therefore supporting endless cuts and/or letting them become inefficient and degrading.  Whereas broad-based programs like Social Security remain more politically durable, as well as relatively efficient and generous because everyone, even the wealthy, have a stake in its success.

Now, I actually take a somewhat "middle" tack here (which is of course still to the left of America's center of gravity): sometimes resource constraints and countervailing concerns combine to make means-testing a necessary evil.  For instance, a lot of places have programs to help subsidize low-income people's utility bills, and I'm fine with means-testing that because those who can afford it ought to feel an economic incentive to conserve and be efficient, and money to defray the cost of electrify and heat a fancy McMansion really would be better spent elsewhere.  But the pitfalls are real, and it's important to understand that there is actually a solid rationale behind the objection to just means-test everything beyond just slogans of "socialism".

[Deus Naturae]

Some good news: De Blasio admin may reform city's tax structure.

[Lief 🗽]

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The guy on the left needs to get someone to help him with his makeup.  He's too pale and pasty to be a pirate.

[jaichind]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/06/17/mayor-bill-de-blasio-admissions-process-at-elite-schools-needs-change/

"Mayor Bill de Blasio says the admissions process at the city’s most selective public high schools needs to be revamped."

Sigh.  Here we go again.  Fortunately it seems Albany will not let De Blasio tinker with this system.  If he does manage to change this I can see this having an impact of another slice of high income population moving out of NYC to the suburbs.  To be fair this will hit Asians a lot more than Whites.  Most of my friends (almost all of them high income) both in NYC and in the suburbs are mostly White but a few Asians.  I can see the Asian friends of my having kids coming up on school age getting pretty upset at this if it goes through.  Its not like the economic impact of this section leaving NYC will be that huge, but it will all add up if De Blasio gets his way on this and other stuff.

[Simfan34]

They talk about adding in class performance and all that, but, besides the fact that's far more "fuzzy" than raw scores, does anyone not think they'll use the opening to start imposing all sorts of things to favor "underprivileged groups"?

The typical inability, or lack of will, to address the root causes of poor academic performance amongst certain groups, plays a role here. The fact that only a handful of minority students are accepted does not raise "red flags about the fairness of the admissions system" but rather about the quality of the primary education system and the culture underlying it.

I mean look at this:

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http://gothamist.com/2014/06/20/ask_a_native_new_yorker_13.php

It's actually disgusting, that the writer thinks that by putting in "some nice, well-rounded kids" (read: less competitive) that this will reduce the competitive nature of the school, and that would be a good thing. That these people are required to "reduce the stress level" because they can't handle it unlike others. It's insulting, really.

[bedstuy]

People complaining about Stuy and similar schools never really make sense.  Their process is fair because it's based on one objective, fair metric, an entrance exam.

It's not fair that our city is failing to educate black kids.  It's fair that black kids who don't bubble in enough correct answers don't get into Stuy High.  This is just lowering the standards for a few token black kids so we can trick ourselves into thinking we're doing a good job educating black and latino kids.  The high school in my neighborhood is 25%-40% truant every day, doesn't send anyone to a 4 year school and our average SAT is like 600.  They should be focusing on that high school and wondering why it's such garbage. 

[Simfan34]

600 composite? That's literally at about the bottomost percentile of scores.

[bedstuy]

I said 600, because I knew it was in the 300s for each and I subconsciously ignore the writing section.

Here's the breakdown:

30% took the SAT
Mean score:

Math: 372
Reading: 377
Writing: 362

Nobody scored well enough for college readiness in math, 1-2% in reading and writing.  That's straight up pathetic.