Update XV: Stuck Inside of Tulsa with the Oklahoma City Blues Again

[J-Mann]

You guys are funny.  He just wants me to establish myself in a job before I propose.  I don't blame him.  I start the job this Wednesday, so I'm thinking mid-August or so.

I had a good holiday.  I took her to Alva to see my alma mater and then had dinner at Applebee's with her family and watched fireworks in Stillwater.  I'm at my parents now enjoying the rest of the weekend with them.  I'll go back to Tulsa tomorrow evening.

You don't think that, by "establish," he's thinking longer than six weeks? What does Papa Alison do? That'll give me some idea of what he expects from a son-in-law.

And you still haven't gotten you CADD certificate yet!?

I actually think the Walmart idea that someone floated earlier isn't too bad. Think of it, Jeff ... you don't truly like call centers and have never succeeded at them, but you end up in them because the jobs are super-easy to land. But Walmart ... they have structure and training, they'd probably be somewhat impressed with your credentials, and it could turn into an actual career. Plus, you actually like Walmart!

[J-Mann]

J-Mann makes a great point and Bushie once again ignores it.

I assume the reason he keeps going back to call centers is because he isn't physically able to handle a retail job. Otherwise, I don't get it. It's always been an Update mystery to me considering he has failed at them each and every time. If a call center had actually been a career option, Bushie wouldn't have gone back for CADD.

I can't really stand up for that long.  I would if I absolutely had to, but most retail jobs require being on your feet for nearly the entire shift except lunch.  With my weight, it puts a lot of pressure on my knees, ankles, and feet that it makes my feet start hurting in a fairly short amount of time.  I know the weight is a correctable issue, but for right now, I have a very hard time standing up for 6-8 hours a day.

Doesn't the sheer act of typing those words make you feel like a big ol' goose egg?

[J-Mann]

I appreciate all the concern for my weight, but I'm slowly working at it.  You all think it is the easiest change ever to go from a mindset of eating whatever I want to eating healthy.  It's a harder change than what you all realize.  Slowly, I am getting into that mindset.  It's not an overnight thing, just like quitting smoking or quitting drinking are generally not overnight.  I can't just flip a switch.  I am working at it, though.

As far as the pop, I refuse to give it up entirely.  I am mixing in a glass of water now and then, yes, and I am trying to increase my daily water intake but I am not going to give up pop entirely.  I have to have some sweet drink and sweetened tea (sweetened with Splenda) or juice doesn't always cut it.  They are good, but they don't always cut it for me.  I am switching to diet pop because it's void of calories.  Today, it has helped me stay around 2,300 calories on the day, which for a guy my size is okay.

As far as work goes, there is no reason to worry.  It took a little bit for the job to grow on me, but I am not second guessing my decision to take the job.  Not everybody is going to love everything about their job from the moment they walk in the doors.  They just learn to accept and adapt to the things they don't like and look forward to what they do like.  There is nothing else to read into the job than what I gave you, so please do not read anymore into it than what I posted.

Let me start by saying that I think it's actually OK if you aren't continuing to look for other work at the moment. You've landed a position, and now it's time to make the best of it. The key is follow-through. Your body is such a wreck that, if your history tells us anything, you'll be taking sick days within weeks because of lethargy and grade-9 headaches or whatever other made-up jargon you attempt to label your overall lack of motivation. And before long, failure in the position will be someone else's fault. Jeff's never to blame ... someone else always is.

At least, that's what your history tells us. You have an opportunity to make this work, and I'd encourage you to do all you can to overcome your usual habits that yield the same results -- dissatisfaction, dismissal and a meandering search to land in the exact same spot.

As far as your weight: you are not slowly working on it. You're not. Period. Don't lie to us, and more importantly, don't lie to yourself. You've gained ... what? ... 20 pounds in recent months? You're a 290 pound land monster and refuse to overcome your baser instincts and the least common denominators.

To be totally fair to you, your economic situation doesn't afford you EASY opportunities to do otherwise. McDonald's is cheap, and the poorest in this country are the fattest and unhealthiest ... a sharp contrast to the rich vs. poor health situation of a century ago.

Philosophy aside, you've got to stop lying to yourself, and you should stop seeking comfort in the arms of your enabling friends and family who cheer on your every greasy bite. If I ballooned up to 290 pounds, my dad would rake me over the coals for being a lard-ass who wasn't taking care of myself and risked hurting my own body and the feelings of those closest to me ... because he cares. Yes, ultimately it would be my responsibility, but those who care shouldn't ignore your very serious problems. Your enablers ply you with more double hamburgers and KFC Double Downs, as if the chub that indicates health on an infant is somehow becoming on a 32-year-old man.

Wake up. Stop fooling yourself. Get help. REAL help -- a doctor who cares, not a church potluck. Realize that some of us DO care and are trying to tell you that YOU ARE KILLING YOURSELF.

Read that: YOU. ARE. KILLING. YOURSELF. The only thing you're slowly working at is suicide.

You know I'm one of those that genuinely cares, Jeffrey   I care enough to be blunt with you ... it's what you need.

[J-Mann]

I highly doubt that Jesus would take any interest in an unrepentant sinner like Bushie who routinely profanes the Lord's name by using it as a catch-all excuse.

God takes interest in everyone even, nay, especially the frustrating and unrepentant sinners. Jesus died for the sinners, not for the saints.

Perhaps this passage will clarify my meaning:

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Tell me, which of these two men does Bushie resemble?

I guess you don't understand the concept of grace.  I don't have to meet a certain standard in order for God to allow me into heaven.  All I have to do is accept Jesus's sacrificial death for me.  I don't carelessly throw His name around.  I sincerely believe there is a spiritual purpose for everything.  There is no such thing as luck.  There is no such thing as coincidence.  There is no such thing as karma.  I cannot do anything good under my own power.  God cannot do anything wrong.  So, it's only natural and wonderful to give Him credit for every good thing that happens to me and take the blame for every bad thing that I do.  I am definitely not a "me-first" person.  The first person I talk to in the morning is God and the last person I talk to at night is God.  I talk to Him throughout the day.  I know where I am going when I leave this earth and that place is not hell.  Rather, it is through the pearly gates and I will walk on the streets of gold in heaven.  No one can convince me otherwise.  Do I still sin?  Absolutely.  I sin all the friggin' time, because I still have the sin nature inside of me.  However, the only difference is, I have given my heart and life to Jesus Christ ONE time and that GUARANTEES me a spot in heaven.  There is absolutely nothing I can do to lose my salvation.  There is no sin I can commit to take me out of the grace of God.  That is biblical and since it is biblical, you can take it to the bank, because it is FACT.  The Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God.  It will never steer anybody wrong and is the #1 best selling book of all time for a reason.

1) That's a cop-out ... whether it's regarding how you lean on religion as a crutch ("I'm going to sit back and let God handle it.") or your motivations and how you treat your body. The "salvation for all who believe" line shouldn't be used as a get-out-of-jail free card.

2) You are one of the biggest "me-first" people I've ever known: exceptionally selfish in many respects and lacking the self discipline to truly care for yourself in order to help those around you. The type of reliance you have on your parents at age 32 should be reserved for the mentally handicapped. "Talking" to a god doesn't relieve one of selfishness ... action does. And therein lies your biggest problem ... an inability to take positive action when it would truly make a difference for those around you.

[J-Mann]

What did Jesus say about weed?

^^^^^
And why do you want to impose your religion on everybody else?

I never said I want to impose my religion on other people, I just have a moral personal objection to it.

What is the moral personal objection?

[J-Mann]

I highly doubt that Jesus would take any interest in an unrepentant sinner like Bushie who routinely profanes the Lord's name by using it as a catch-all excuse.

God takes interest in everyone even, nay, especially the frustrating and unrepentant sinners. Jesus died for the sinners, not for the saints.

Perhaps this passage will clarify my meaning:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Tell me, which of these two men does Bushie resemble?

I guess you don't understand the concept of grace.  I don't have to meet a certain standard in order for God to allow me into heaven.  All I have to do is accept Jesus's sacrificial death for me.  I don't carelessly throw His name around.  I sincerely believe there is a spiritual purpose for everything.  There is no such thing as luck.  There is no such thing as coincidence.  There is no such thing as karma.  I cannot do anything good under my own power.  God cannot do anything wrong.  So, it's only natural and wonderful to give Him credit for every good thing that happens to me and take the blame for every bad thing that I do.  I am definitely not a "me-first" person.  The first person I talk to in the morning is God and the last person I talk to at night is God.  I talk to Him throughout the day.  I know where I am going when I leave this earth and that place is not hell.  Rather, it is through the pearly gates and I will walk on the streets of gold in heaven.  No one can convince me otherwise.  Do I still sin?  Absolutely.  I sin all the friggin' time, because I still have the sin nature inside of me.  However, the only difference is, I have given my heart and life to Jesus Christ ONE time and that GUARANTEES me a spot in heaven.  There is absolutely nothing I can do to lose my salvation.  There is no sin I can commit to take me out of the grace of God.  That is biblical and since it is biblical, you can take it to the bank, because it is FACT.  The Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God.  It will never steer anybody wrong and is the #1 best selling book of all time for a reason.

1) That's a cop-out ... whether it's regarding how you lean on religion as a crutch ("I'm going to sit back and let God handle it.") or your motivations and how you treat your body. The "salvation for all who believe" line shouldn't be used as a get-out-of-jail free card.

2) You are one of the biggest "me-first" people I've ever known: exceptionally selfish in many respects and lacking the self discipline to truly care for yourself in order to help those around you. The type of reliance you have on your parents at age 32 should be reserved for the mentally handicapped. "Talking" to a god doesn't relieve one of selfishness ... action does. And therein lies your biggest problem ... an inability to take positive action when it would truly make a difference for those around you.

It is not a cop-out, and I try not use my faith in Christ as a crutch.  Rather, I try to use it as an aide to do the things I need to do day in and day out.  The problem is, I don't always do that, and when I use it as a crutch, it is sin, plain and simple and I have to ask for forgiveness and the strength to correct that behavior.  I talk to God not as an excuse to get out of doing something, but rather to give me the strength to do the things I need to be doing.  I have to fully rely on His strength, because in my own power, I can do nothing.  I have no ability to do what is right apart from His unfailing love and strength.  Without Him, I am nothing.

At what point do you take responsibility and actually try to stop sinning? For instance, you're "morally" opposed to drug use because of the toll it takes on one's body and the damage a user may do to those around him. Your disgusting food "addiction" is no different, and at least you nominally recognize that.

Still, you lie to yourself, your family and friends, AND your god by claiming to know what's wrong, promising to do something about it, and then continuing your slovenly selfishness. At what point do you feel it necessary to actually stop talking and take action to stop sinning? Or is "God doesn't care either way, he forgives me" your excuse?

[J-Mann]

Wow, this page has become a hate-filled page filled with the mantra "Bushie is going to hell because he's fat."  What a ridiculous assumption.  You all accuse me of a "holier than thou" attitude and defaming the name of Jesus, when you all are doing the EXACT same thing.  Remember, when you point the finger at someone, there are 3 fingers pointing back at you.

Jeff, there's no "hate" in anything I said, nor do I think you're going to the imaginary ovens for your weight. That's a defensive overreaction. What I'm trying to point out is the immense hypocrisy in the way you carry yourself and live your life. By your own professed theology, the way you mistreat your own body is sinful, yet you do nothing to change it. On top of that, you lie about your desire to change -- lie to yourself, to your family and to your friends.

I was blown away when you said you were up to 290 pounds. What you're doing to your body is horrible, self-destructive and makes you a burden to those around you and, eventually, society as a whole. The religious aspects are icing on the delicious, delicious cake, and I don't particularly care about them ... but I know you do. So it amazes me that you abuse yourself the way you do and make zero REAL effort to change.

I've been one of your biggest advocates over the years ... hard on you, sure, but always wanting to see you succeed. But how, in the face of so much evidence, you can choose a path of self-destruction, I'll never understand. It's exceptionally frustrating to those of us who actually care and DON'T want to see you profiled on TLC a decade from now.

[J-Mann]

I assume the pay decrease is for unplanned time off, like if you woke up with a headache and decided to call in sick? Or is it if you just don't show up and don't tell them?

Either way, the legality of pay reductions in those cases is really questionable, but HR laws do differ from state to state. However, I think it is bad policy if they're docking your pay in actual paid leave situations, but maybe they've found some loophole where they just don't have to pay someone as much for using paid time off.

On the other stuff ... forget the faith part. Doesn't Xahar's graph scare the hell out of you? What's it going to take for a real wake-up call?

[J-Mann]

I assume the pay decrease is for unplanned time off, like if you woke up with a headache and decided to call in sick? Or is it if you just don't show up and don't tell them?

Either way, the legality of pay reductions in those cases is really questionable, but HR laws do differ from state to state. However, I think it is bad policy if they're docking your pay in actual paid leave situations, but maybe they've found some loophole where they just don't have to pay someone as much for using paid time off.

On the other stuff ... forget the faith part. Doesn't Xahar's graph scare the hell out of you? What's it going to take for a real wake-up call?

On the first bolded point - yes, if I have a headache and call in, but didn't plan it before hand, then that would be docked.  Also, if I am a no call no show.

On the second bolded point - if the leave is scheduled and documented prior to the occurrance, then it won't affect the pay.

I'm not saying I don't like their policy ... I actually do, as it's a hedge against abuse of paid leave. However, I question the legality of it. I suppose Oklahoma laws may be different, but typically, PTO is PTO, and no one plans a health emergency (though they'll certainly fake them). A manager can choose whether or not to allow the employee to use their PTO, and then the absence becomes unexcused if PTO is not allowed, but then it's no pay for the day and does not (or shouldn't) impact the rest of a week's pay.

[J-Mann]

Bushie in a sales job. I predict another high quality and lengthy JMann post.

Ugh ... do I have to? Yeah ... yeah, I guess I do ... stay tuned.

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BINGO ... it's nice if they have money to spend, but someone is always watching the bottom line closely. The bigger they are, the tighter it's ultimately controlled.

Plus, it sounds like they've got him on some weird draw system with the hours business. He explained it better, but I still don't understand it.

[J-Mann]

J-Mann, of course you don't have to type up a long post.   There is absolutely nothing wrong here and nothing that I need a long advice on.   The job is going great,  there is nothing that would lead any sane person to believe I'm in trouble.  The forum just likes to hang onto every word I say and turn it negative and stop up their ears like lunatics to the real news.   Don't give into these pessimists.

You'd turn down sales advice, mentoring, coaching and motivation from someone who has led and coached dozens of salespeople?

[J-Mann]

J-Mann, of course you don't have to type up a long post.   There is absolutely nothing wrong here and nothing that I need a long advice on.   The job is going great,  there is nothing that would lead any sane person to believe I'm in trouble.  The forum just likes to hang onto every word I say and turn it negative and stop up their ears like lunatics to the real news.   Don't give into these pessimists.

You'd turn down sales advice, mentoring, coaching and motivation from someone who has led and coached dozens of salespeople?

Sales tips I'll accept,. I just won't accept questions or negative posts about my ability.

How about statistically-validated concerns about your ability? If you recall, two years ago I had you take an employment-screening survey to help you learn about your preferred work and communication styles. You told me the read-back I did for you was spot on. My aim isn't negativity, but if your qualitatively- and quantitatively-validated survey tells me the areas where you may struggle in a sales position, I'm going to tell you.

[J-Mann]

Please post the job description, list of duties / tasks, activity expectations, overall goals for the position and describe the type of training you're getting.

[J-Mann]

No job description yet? I get that you are in some sort of a sales role, but I don't yet understand if it is primarily support with an opportunity to upsell, or if it is primarily sales that takes support calls and turns them into sales opportunities. Or if you're doing outbound calling.

Give me the basics ... you've been there for a week, and you undoubtedly were exposed to some sort of job description at some point, whether written or oral. Tell me what you're going to be doing and what they expect of you.

Also, what have you learned in the training?

[J-Mann]

Job description aside, Jeff, you've indicated that there is a sales aspect to this job. As someone who has observed your experience in previous positions and actually spent time with you reviewing your individual profile and core competencies through the ProScan, or PDP, I'm FACTUALLY concerned that you're putting yourself in a very difficult situation with a job like this. Or any call-center related job. They may be easy positions to land, but there is a factual reason why you struggle with them so much: your core personality traits --  your basic, natural self -- clashes with what's required in these positions.

Let's consider the PDP, which is extraordinarily accurate in its own right, but which you qualitatively confirmed when I did your read-back.

The PDP shows your lowest, weakest trait to be that of dominance. Other surveys read this as authority or autonomy ... whatever you choose to call it, when it comes to an employment situation, you're one who is more expecting the path to be laid out for you. Extroversion was also a low trait for you. That doesn't mean you're not a friendly, amenable or approachable person; it just means that you're not likely the one doing the approaching. You're not the life of the party.

On the other hand, the PDP showed your pace and conformity as your high traits. High conformity has you, in employment situations, more comfortable with systems and processes, and your pace -- your highest trait -- indicates that you're best with one task at a time. You'll do an exceptionally thorough job if the task is clear and the process laid out ... you're just not very comfortable if there is disruption to that flow.

Here's the ProScan's overview of you:

You are dependable, steady and efficient. Dedicated to respected programs and people. You are sincerely cautious and conscientious, wanting things done well.

Able to do repetitive tasks, you usually like a consistent routine. Make every move count. Can be uncomfortable if placed under too much unjustified pressure or confrontational environments.

You are friendly and well accepted by others. A cooperative and peaceful approach is your preference. Do not want yourself or others taken advantage of.

Let's consider that second paragraph of the profile overview ... "can be uncomfortable if placed under too much unjustified pressure or confrontational environments." "Confrontational environment" might as well be the tagline for every single call center in existence. And just try throwing sales into the mix, and you'll get a healthy dose of pressure, as well. In sales, you succeed or you go hungry. No pressure.

Other insights from the ProScan include:

The CONFORMITY trait and its relationship to the above would represent you as being careful, thorough, dependable, conservative and systems oriented. You want to be correct and desire guidelines to work within.

The DOMINANCE trait suggests you are supportive, collaborative and modest. You may place importance on security and prefer to work with leadership that has a strong sense of direction and purpose.

The EXTROVERSION trait indicates you are a reserved, private and quiet person especially around strangers. The more familiar you become with an individual or group, the higher your comfort level of expressing yourself to them.

You actually have a reasonably high energy level, which probably allows you to zero in and focus on routine or repetitive tasks ... something that would drive a dominant or an extrovert crazy. And, very predictably, the ProScan indicated that you base most of your decisions on feeling (which possibly negates the entire purpose of this, as memphis referred to it, "high quality and lengthy" post).

The Culture Index, another survey designed to get to the root of an employee's natural tendencies and strengths, would say you fit an "Operator" profile. Here's the description ... and remember when we discussed this on the phone a couple of years ago, these surveys are designed to paint with a broad brush but capture 80-to-90 percent of your basic self.

This individual is an easy going, laid back processor of tasks. A creature of habit, they prefer stability and predictability. If the work environment is a place where they can be routinely comfortable, they'd prefer for their surroundings not to experience variation. Not a change agent, not caring or wanting to be, this person is as steady and consistent as you can get for an employee. NOTE: steady and consistent only applies if this person is in the RIGHT role. Jeff has undoubtedly been in roles that are the opposite of his natural tendencies, lending the appearance of an inability to be steady or consistent.

They are interested in performing tasks, as projects would require interaction with others for direction. They are not interested in working with lots of people, as they prefer to work with tangible items that don't talk back. They are not interested in multi-tasking because to try and do so causes them some discomfort; however, they are a stickler for details. We all know Jeff to be almost OCD when it comes to certain details that we find ridiculous, and we've also often lamented his ability to multitask in the simplest of ways ... say, watching a baseball game and looking for a job at the same time.

The Operators are invaluable in positions that require little connection to the public and an ability to focus on one task at a time. Due to their long attention span on repetitive workloads, they can appear to outwork most people. They will find their own way of doing things, or their own system where they appear to work seamlessly. The rest of us would stumble in the same consistent, methodical environment.

Don't think about moving their stapler, or their computer mouse, or garden hose, as they will view it as a personally disruptive change, and even though they may be slow to burn, if they perceive the move to be wrong, you will hear about it.

The Operator does require clearly defined duties. A detailed to-do list is a necessity as this person may continue to work on one aspect of a project past quitting time, regardless of the aspect's importance. Also be careful that you do not overload them. The Operator's pace will not allow for speedy completion times. They need deadlines because of their single-minded dedication.

Risk-oriented problems requiring resolve will make them uncomfortable and will ultimately push them to approach others for assistance. They would just as soon stay with the task at hand rather than have to go off and seek direction from others. Methodical and efficient, this person will rarely ask questions or offer opinions unless asked. They will be the last to join a meeting and the first to leave because they want to return to the comfort level of their work station.

If the Operator is treated fairly, you will find them to have guardian qualities. If they perceive something to be a threat, they will not allow the menace to proceed unless told to do so. Steadfast and stubborn, the Operator may not appear to be watchful, but with their skeptical, introverted view of the world, they know what's going on.

The Operator will make decisions based on what the book says, or what history has dictated. You will see strong behavior from them when they defend what they know or if they are pushed into an immediate change. In either case, it is a defensive reaction to what they can't, in good conscience, support.

When the Operator does engage in conversation, let them finish what they start. People usually interrupt or talk over them, as they do speak in long, slow sentences. In any case, these are workers that want a long-term career without titles, management responsibilities or too much change.

The PDP also talks about when you reach a breaking point:

Your back-up style indicates that when all else fails, you may avoid conflict but have a get you later attitude. You may not actually do this, but you at least will feel like it.

These indicators may not be absolute perfect matches, and I know that I can certainly find instances in the various surveys I have taken where I have TEMPORARILY worked around a core personality trait. The key word is "temporarily." My profile is the exact mirror of yours, Jeff -- highest in dominance, second in extroversion, low conformity / detail and absolutely no pace / patience. I can pay attention to detail when I need to ... I had to review a contract recently and was required to be very detailed. I did it, but it annoyed me to no end. In my mind, there are others to take on that challenge and do significantly better than me ... it was below my pay grade and certainly a stretch for my natural tendencies, if not my abilities.

I have a strong feeling ... as well as indications quantitatively justified by your taking of the ProScan survey ... that any call center / customer service / sales job pushes you to similar levels of discomfort. And despite your optimism, you will never excel at these jobs as you would at others because it runs counter to your basic natural self.

All this is to say, if you're failing at call center jobs, it's not anyone's fault (not even your own), though I question the hiring practices of any employer that isn't digging deeper into candidates to find out whether they're truly right for the role. You're failing at them because they're not you.

Sales would be the same way. The most successful sales people have no patience and little conformity. They're more dominant and their highest trait is extroversion. This is almost your complete opposite. You can't beat yourself up too bad if you fail at these types of positions, because you -- the real, deep-down you -- is simply not made to do them. That's OK! But you can't keep beating your head against a wall accepting these positions simply because of availability and expediency when you likely know they won't result in workplace satisfaction or an environment in which you can excel.

You want stability. These types of positions that you keep accepting won't provide that ... not because they can't, but because they can't for you.

[J-Mann]

Part II. Thanks, character limit!

Where would you truly excel? Honestly ... probably a CADD job or something similar, which is why it's not a bad idea to keep looking. There are plenty of back-office positions in larger companies, too, where your main tasks would be well directed and explained, creating a comfort level for you that allows consistency, steadiness, and above all, a career through which you can support yourself. Think of a job where you didn't have to be yelled at by an angry customer; where you didn't have to try to sell someone something that they don't want; where you don't have poorly-directed training schedules or a constantly ringing phone.

Do what you can to be successful in this job. I can certainly provide sales guidance and motivation if that's what you'll ultimately be doing. I just don't think you'll be happy doing what you're doing.

Don't disagree because you think I'm "unfairly criticizing" you or being negative. I'm not. I'm trying to help you realize what will ultimately be best for you. Just like I wouldn't excel (for long) as an accounts payable clerk, neither will you excel (for long) in a demanding, harried and high-pressure world of sales or customer service. It just isn't in you, Jeff. The community has been saying that for years. But the data proves it, too. You'd do yourself a favor to keep looking on the back end and find a place where you can be you.

[J-Mann]

We are supposed to role-play for a while today and then maybe listen to other people taking inbound calls.  I'm hoping and expecting the role-play to give me a better idea on how to talk to my customers.  Bottom line, is I have no plans to leave this job.  I can't afford to go through another long, painful job search.

Why can't  you look for a better job now that you have a job?  I'm missing something.

I think it comes down to his confidence - he has none. It was difficult for him to be rejected job after job while his classmates all were hired, so he's given up and thinks that being a telemarketer is going to be a career for him, when in reality, it will only feed his low self esteem and he will be out of a job in 2 weeks max.

Again, why the doubts about my ability?  I have specifically asked you not to post those.  Yet, you continue to ignore me.  You are not here to help apparently.  You are here to laugh and mock and discourage.  Do you remember the advice "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all"?  You have violated that so many times.

He's essentially saying what I did, just in far fewer words (by the way, did you bother to read it?). I'm predicting a struggle because it's scientifically proven that one with your personality type and skill set will struggle. That's not mocking or negative ... it's insight into why these sorts of jobs end up "falling through" for you.

I wouldn't give up, but I wouldn't look at this as your career, either. You would do very well to keep looking on the back end of things for jobs that suit your strengths. You're already at a point where you're saying "it's a paycheck," which is a rough way to look at a job. If you don't love what you do, aren't excited by it and aren't challenged by it in a good way, it's not a long-term fit. You know this from feeling. I know this from looking at the data about you.

Do what you need to do to make this work for the time being and keep looking for a job that allows you to be you.

[J-Mann]

JMann, as usual I am impressed by the quality, insight, and efforts in your Update contributions. I will, however, respectfully quibble with one point. People like Bushie, and there are far more of his ilk than yours, will never love their jobs. Yes, some jobs are certainly better suited for him than others, but this sort of job soulmate talk isn't helpful for people on the other side of the tracks. Somebody has to clean hotel rooms, somebody has to scan bar codes, somebody has to haul away the port a potties after Mardi Gras. Some people are lucky enough to land a sweet career. The rest of us just want to pay the bills and have some fun before it's time to lay in a box. I think a steady paycheck is an enormously important goal for Bushie to strive for, even though he'll never get it at his current job.

Well, you could be right about that ... love is certainly a strong word. Think of it this way: one may not ultimately love what they're doing, but can they excel at it? Can they, because they're the right type of person for a particular role, be the best damn barcode-scanner out there? If so, then they shouldn't try to force themselves into positions where they repeatedly will fail.

So, in Jeff's case, yet another call center and another sales job is bound to fail, not because he doesn't want to pay his bills or because he doesn't want to succeed ... but because success in such a role is not in his nature.

Someone can hate his job and do it for a paycheck only but be damn good at it, to boot ... and that's what these sorts of hiring assessments should ferret out: round peg or square peg, round hole or square hole? Ultimately, how the employee feels about work is outside of that scope (although they're more likely to enjoy what they're doing if they're successful at it, and they're more likely to be successful if they don't have to try to be someone they're not).

One addition: I suppose there are some who are "lucky" and land a sweet career and love what they do. I was not one of those people, and of those who actually love there jobs, I don't think most are. I have worked incredibly hard to get where I am, and part of my process of working hard was finding my place, ie: where can I excel? Jeff can do the same; he's just got to pair the "where can I excel" question with "how can I earn a paycheck?"

[J-Mann]

I'm going to my parents this weekend and we're going to talk about my strategy with the job.  I voiced my frustrations to my mother last night over the phone and she is concerned to be honest.  I don't want to leave this place, but if they think it would be the best thing for me then I would strongly consider it.  Ultimately, it's my decision, but I'll listen to everyone's advice.

I truly hope you mean everyone's advice. Listening to your parents is fine, but there is a fairly good talent pool gathered here that is trying to help, as well.

My advice is NOT to leave the job outright. But saying things like "it's a paycheck" and voicing "frustrations" means you're not happy and know you won't be happy at this place. It takes some extra effort, Jeff, but keep on the lookout for jobs that better-support your skills, your personality and get you toward your ultimate goal ... and if that's simply a steady paycheck, that's fine. Just understand that it needs to be a job at which you can be consistent and successful to provide that.

[J-Mann]

J-Mann, I get that my personality type does not match call centers and sales jobs, but I do not believe that's a hard and fast rule.  I believe there are exceptions to every rule.

How many call center and sales jobs have you tried your hand at over the last several years? Half-a-dozen? More? You were not an exception then, and you are not an exception now. You entered each of those with the same amount of determination and resolve, too.

A person's frame of mind, I believe, plays a larger role than scientific results.  Anybody can do just about anything if they put their mind to it.  Bottom line, I am not going to let scientific results dictate how and where I make a living.

No, they can't. Your frame of body doesn't allow you to stand for eight hours a day; psychological realities play just as large of a role as to whether you'll make it at a job or not. You just seem to be much more accepting of your physical limitations than your psychological ones. Ultimately, people are better off seeking jobs or careers where they can exercise their natural skills, not fight their core natures.

You can make it (or fake it) for a while and possibly be successful. You ARE doing something smart here, which is continuing to look for CADD jobs. I am positive that you'd be more successful and happier in that type of a position. I don't want to see you in the same position you've been in before, where you have the rug pulled out from under you in a job you were never right for and have to be unemployed for weeks or months before grabbing something else in desperation. Keep looking while you're working. You'll find something better.

[J-Mann]

As things stand right now coming to the end of a Friday night, I am not only more comfortable, but continue to be very excited about getting on the phones the middle of next week.  J-Mann, I get that my personality type does not match call centers and sales jobs, but I do not believe that's a hard and fast rule.  I believe there are exceptions to every rule.  A person's frame of mind, I believe, plays a larger role than scientific results.  Anybody can do just about anything if they put their mind to it.  Bottom line, I am not going to let scientific results dictate how and where I make a living.

See, this is where we differ. I have no idea why you wish to prove us wrong over this after being let go of countless call center jobs, but maybe one day you will succeed. And I'm fairly sure J-Mann knows more about sales jobs than you do; we all know how they act during training and then how things are different when you actually are on the sales floor. You know that too. You've felt great about these call center jobs and then the first or second day on the phones, you're either let go or in trouble on the verge of being let go.

That said, I hope you keep this one until you find a CAD job, and I hope you make an honest effort to find one. It would suit you far better than sales.

I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong that I cannot work in a call center or sales, I am just trying to prove to myself that I can keep a job no matter what it is.

You are, or you wouldn't be telling me that the science that has been corroborated by over 5,000,000 surveys somehow doesn't apply to you.

Keep the job, yes, but understand that you don't have a rainmaking salesperson's psychological make-up, and any position like this will always be a mental stretch for you, which can be stressful and exhausting. Consider it Calvinism for the HR world -- you are predestined for something different.

Make it work for now and keep looking for something that's you.

[J-Mann]

I was in the Customer Accounting department.  I analyzed irregular meter readings of customers gas meters and took appropriate action either adjusting the reading or sending out a service tech to investigate possible leaks.

And how much selling was involved? Or how many customer service calls would you take on a daily basis?

[J-Mann]

bushie do you have to clock out to go to the bathroom at this job?

He answered this already.

bushie, does your new job require you to clock out to go to the bathroom?

I have to go in a different code on the phones, but I still get paid for it.

[J-Mann]

Does anyone know if travelers diarrhea is contagious?  My aunt came down with it coming back from Spain last week and just got over it.  I was around her all day Saturday and for an hour today.  Now,  I've been gagging all day at nearly every scent.  I'm not in pain at this time and I haven't thrown up yet, but I've been close.

Unlikely. A more-likely reason for your sensitive gag reflex is your aunt regaling you with stories of her traveler's diarrhea.

[J-Mann]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypochondriasis

Not to harp on yet another thing, but your weight and general disregard for your health causes you to be more susceptible to little illnesses, which cause you to miss work, which cause you to lose jobs. Baby steps are not working for you. You need radical action.

http://www.wlsfa.org/looking-for-help/
http://www.ehow.com/how_5645859_apply-grants-weight-loss-programs.html
http://www.katu.com/news/local/126001408.html?mobile=y