Hide yo' wife, hide yo' kids - they kidnappin' errebody!

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

AIPAC isn't that bad. They are more moderate than the Canada's foreign affairs minister, which more or less said than wanting a cease-fire is supporting terrorists. (Not than it's surprising, there a common saying than he is "Israel First, Canada Second", which is wierd considering he has no link with Israel.)

And besides, the Christian Zionists are just as big if not a bigger influence in US support for Israel, for their own purposes.

AIPAC is mainly Jews supporting Israel, and the focus on it - especially any talks of how it should be "cracked down on" makes me uneasy.

So because it is mainly "Jews supporting Israel" it should be immune from criticism?

They certainly don't deserve more scrutiny or "Crackdown" than any other advocacy group in the United States. The overemphasis as them as "power brokers" while the Christian zionists get less attention is a bit disturbing.

CUFI isn't as powerful, though. There may be far more Christian Zionists than Jewish Zionists in America, but Jewish Zionists still have the "loudest voice" so to speak.

To be frank, as long as they're following the law, their voice should be of no concern to anyone. And aside from the sketchy Bush-era prosecutions of two officials, I don't believe they've been involved in any legal issues.

People are free to disagree with their agenda, but the attempt to make them some sort of threatening boogeyman has always had some disturbing overtones. Especially when it gets into implications of them having too much power or influence over the government.

[MalaspinaGold]

Right wingers attack left wing demonstrators in Tel Aviv

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[Indy Texas]

AIPAC isn't that bad. They are more moderate than the Canada's foreign affairs minister, which more or less said than wanting a cease-fire is supporting terrorists. (Not than it's surprising, there a common saying than he is "Israel First, Canada Second", which is wierd considering he has no link with Israel.)

And besides, the Christian Zionists are just as big if not a bigger influence in US support for Israel, for their own purposes.

AIPAC is mainly Jews supporting Israel, and the focus on it - especially any talks of how it should be "cracked down on" makes me uneasy.

So because it is mainly "Jews supporting Israel" it should be immune from criticism?

They certainly don't deserve more scrutiny or "Crackdown" than any other advocacy group in the United States. The overemphasis as them as "power brokers" while the Christian zionists get less attention is a bit disturbing.

I agree that Christian Zionists don't get enough attention. I also think Jewish Zionists need to realize that people who support Israel for particularly nasty reasons (i.e. anti-Islamism, anti-Arabism, a desire to foment Holy War in the Middle East, a desire for the Jewish people to face End Times destruction and forced acceptance of Christ) aren't really their friends.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

AIPAC isn't that bad. They are more moderate than the Canada's foreign affairs minister, which more or less said than wanting a cease-fire is supporting terrorists. (Not than it's surprising, there a common saying than he is "Israel First, Canada Second", which is wierd considering he has no link with Israel.)

And besides, the Christian Zionists are just as big if not a bigger influence in US support for Israel, for their own purposes.

AIPAC is mainly Jews supporting Israel, and the focus on it - especially any talks of how it should be "cracked down on" makes me uneasy.

So because it is mainly "Jews supporting Israel" it should be immune from criticism?

They certainly don't deserve more scrutiny or "Crackdown" than any other advocacy group in the United States. The overemphasis as them as "power brokers" while the Christian zionists get less attention is a bit disturbing.

I agree that Christian Zionists don't get enough attention. I also think Jewish Zionists need to realize that people who support Israel for particularly nasty reasons (i.e. anti-Islamism, anti-Arabism, a desire to foment Holy War in the Middle East, a desire for the Jewish people to face End Times destruction and forced acceptance of Christ) aren't really their friends.

Agreed. Any port in the storm and all that is convenient, but some of these people are our enemies as much as the radical left can be.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

How do you feel about the 1980's ANC?

[Indy Texas]

AIPAC isn't that bad. They are more moderate than the Canada's foreign affairs minister, which more or less said than wanting a cease-fire is supporting terrorists. (Not than it's surprising, there a common saying than he is "Israel First, Canada Second", which is wierd considering he has no link with Israel.)

And besides, the Christian Zionists are just as big if not a bigger influence in US support for Israel, for their own purposes.

AIPAC is mainly Jews supporting Israel, and the focus on it - especially any talks of how it should be "cracked down on" makes me uneasy.

So because it is mainly "Jews supporting Israel" it should be immune from criticism?

They certainly don't deserve more scrutiny or "Crackdown" than any other advocacy group in the United States. The overemphasis as them as "power brokers" while the Christian zionists get less attention is a bit disturbing.

I agree that Christian Zionists don't get enough attention. I also think Jewish Zionists need to realize that people who support Israel for particularly nasty reasons (i.e. anti-Islamism, anti-Arabism, a desire to foment Holy War in the Middle East, a desire for the Jewish people to face End Times destruction and forced acceptance of Christ) aren't really their friends.

Agreed. Any port in the storm and all that is convenient, but some of these people are our enemies as much as the radical left can be.

This is a dilemma for the other side too. I abhor anti-Semitism for the same reason I abhor any blanket hatred for a religious or ethnic group; so the support that occasionally bubbles up from paleoconservatives for the Palestinian cause based on whacky fears of internationalist Jewish bankers or whatever is support I'd just as soon do without. The same applies to the regressive Gulf Arab monarchies and Islamic states like Iran and Pakistan that have never been wronged by Israel but use them as a bogeyman for their own shortcomings and care nothing about the Palestinian people apart from using them as a bloody shirt to "bait the rubes" in Muslim society.

[Mechaman]

While I do agree that this thread does show off dead0man's strawtastic trolling, I should take a moment real quickly and just state this for the record:

Snowstalker, will you please SHUT THE FUCK UP?!
(mods, I will accept the infraction points)

[Antonio the Sixth]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Oakvale]

Can we talk about the title of this thread?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Can we talk about the title of this thread?

Dead memes are awful, yes.

And these posts have not been trolling, only a bit hyperbolic.

[Mechaman]

Can we talk about the title of this thread?

Dead memes are awful, yes.

And these posts have not been trolling, only a bit hyperbolic.

Whatever you say, Mr. Dees.

There is a line that shouldn't be crossed, and you went about 100,000 dead babies over it.

[Hnv1]

Ceasefire to be announced tomorrow 09:00 (GMT+2) and enforced by 21:00.

[dead0man]

If Hamas agrees (and that's a big IF...last I heard they were still saying no truce without release of some prisoners and opening of border with Egypt (so they can rearm)), is there any chance a third party can/will come in to make sure Hamas doesn't get more rockets so they can't do this again in 18 months?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

All I've seen in the news is that Egypt has proposed a ceasefire, but not that either side has indicated they would consider it, tho I think Hamas would have to be utter fools not to do so before the Israelis invade Gaza.

[dead0man]

Kerry told them not to.



edit-I mean, Kerry told the Israelis not to do a ground offensive.

[Hnv1]

Hania confirms there negotiations, ISraeli cabinet to vote on the blueprint tomorrow morning. Bennet and Liberman will probably rage a bit to get extra credit with the right wing base but this is happening.

[Horus]

Israeli Government has agreed to the terms of the Egyptian cease fire plan.

[dead0man]

Hamas isn't ready to admit defeat yet

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Hamas has been firing rockets non-stop since the cease-fiire time.

[dead0man]

All I've seen in the news is that Egypt has proposed a ceasefire, but not that either side has indicated they would consider it, tho I think Hamas would have to be utter fools not to do so before the Israelis invade Gaza.

Netanyahu: Hamas rejection of truce gives Israel legitimacy to expand operation

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Is this end game for Hamas?  Are they going all in?  They had a way out, but they couldn't take it and save face.  Other than 3 teens murdered in cold blood, a few dozens of injuries and a few million inconvenienced(a Neil Young concert was canceled for funks sake)/scared Israelis, they have nothing to show for all their shenanigans.  Well, they showed how effective the Iron Dome is.  And they got some human shield deaths (not as many as they would have wanted), which is always good fodder for certain groups.  But they didn't get a hostage and despite 800+ rocket attacks, their first use of drones and a beach landing, have nothing of substance to brag about.

and all their friends are dead, very busy or have tired of their sh**t.

Is the rat finally cornered?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Since a Hamas rocket finally managed to kill someone, they might possibly be willing now to accept a cease fire, but I doubt Israel would now.  Don't really think Hamas would either.  Hamas seems to have decided that they need a ground invasion to be able save face now. Idiots!

[dead0man]

They seem to be very confident.

[Cory]

They seem to be very confident.

*assuming you are talking about Hamas*

Well yes, because they know that anything short of a total land invasions and occupation of the Gaza Strip by Israel will leave them in power and with fresh bodies to rally the cause around.

[dead0man]

and still broke and friendless.

[MalaspinaGold]

Netanyahu has just sacked deputy defense minister Danny Danon, for criticism of Pillar (ie they didn't send ground troops in)
http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-fires-danny-danon-over-criticism-of-gaza-war/

First sane thing he's done in a LONG time.

[dead0man]

His handling of this mess has been insane so far?