Atlas Sexual Morality Poll

[Antonio the Sixth]

There are some ethical problems with porn, of course... I don't think it comes under the barrier of 'morally wrong'

"Morally wrong" doesn't necessarily mean an unforgivable misdeed or anything like that. There are different degrees.

[Simfan34]

60% approve of childbirth outside of wedlock?! Or is it 67?!?!?!?!

And 63% approve of sex outside of marriage? How can 67% approve of an unmarried woman having a baby but only 63% approve of sex outside marriage? Who is this 4%?

And for all this, only 31% approve of pornography? And 1 out of 7 approves of polygamy? Not to mention the alarming growth in support for the latter. Clearly the "general populace" is not "conservative", at least that's not something I glean from this.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

The thing about porn, is that it still has a shame element to it. 31% might approve of it, but there's darn sight more who use it, but don't approve of it.

As for the sex out of wedlock v child out of wedlock... you can't expect people to be consistent

[Mr. Morden]

And 63% approve of sex outside of marriage? How can 67% approve of an unmarried woman having a baby but only 63% approve of sex outside marriage? Who is this 4%?

That's easy.  These are vaguely worded questions, and different people will interpret them differently.  What is the "decision point" at which we're evaluating the morality of one decision vs. another?

If you have someone who disapproves of sex outside marriage and disapproves of abortion, then they might interpret the "approval of an unmarried woman having a baby" as a judgment over whether that woman should have an abortion.  They'd say that she shouldn't have had sex in the first place, but once the pregnancy happened, she should have the baby.

So that person might answer "disapprove" of sex outside marriage and "approve" of unmarried woman having a baby.

[Mr. Morden]

The thing about porn, is that it still has a shame element to it. 31% might approve of it, but there's darn sight more who use it, but don't approve of it.

What are the statistics on what % of the population uses it?

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I'm not sure, but I'd be stunned if it was that low.

[Tender Branson]

Agree with all, except maybe not 5.

As for question 1, it depends which porn: Normal consensual/porn industry porn is not a problem at all to watch, but other forms are morally wrong + revenge porn (porn that 3rd persons watch without the consent of the person in the movie).

[Mr. Morden]

I'm not sure, but I'd be stunned if it was that low.

It's going to be much higher in the demographic of Atlas forumites (young unmarried men) than any other demographic group.

What's the median age of an adult poll respondent?  Forty-something?  Fifty?  I bet many of those people have viewed porn at some point in their lifetime, but aren't regularly doing so anymore.  And now that they're not doing it anymore, may consider it "immoral".

[Tender Branson]

What ?

(Gallup graphic)

Twice as many Americans think the death penalty is moral than American teenagers having sex ? Or watching regular porn ?

Insane !

[TJ in Oregon]

Because to consistently engage in something that you legitimately believe is wrong is unhealthy and destructive. I'm sure you're describing a significant number of people, and it's frankly a shame that they've been guilted into thinking that something as innocent as porn is "morally bankrupt," but, more often than not, I don't think someone who faps to porn everyday could truly believe it's immoral. I do think, though, that many people who enjoy porn are brought up in socially-conservative environments where the only right answer to the question is "yes, porn's bad."

I think what it comes down to is that a good number of them actually believe in Christianity and have not discarded the aspects of sexual morality that come with it (barring liberal Christianity of course), including believing masturbation is a sin. A lot of them don't have the strength to actually stop. So they can go a couple directions from there, either continue in a state of internal conflict, find the strength to stop, or take the standard narcissistic modern approach and redefine their moral beliefs to fit their lifestyle. I know we live in an era where nothing is ever supposed to hurt our self-esteem, or heaven forbid require us to make any difficult changes to our lifestyle, but perhaps not everyone believes they're God's gift to the world and never do anything wrong. Some people recognize that they are sinners even if they don't stop.

Why is "redefining your moral beliefs" so wrong? I'd rather live my life exploring the world and reaching my own conclusions about morality than unquestioningly accept someone else's moral code. There's no standard here. These are difficult questions for a reason, and if they're not difficult I kind of question whether you're doing it right. There's more to the world than rules and baseless self-restraint.

Because what's the point in believing anything's wrong if you're just going to change it every time you do something in violation?

[afleitch]

Because to consistently engage in something that you legitimately believe is wrong is unhealthy and destructive. I'm sure you're describing a significant number of people, and it's frankly a shame that they've been guilted into thinking that something as innocent as porn is "morally bankrupt," but, more often than not, I don't think someone who faps to porn everyday could truly believe it's immoral. I do think, though, that many people who enjoy porn are brought up in socially-conservative environments where the only right answer to the question is "yes, porn's bad."

I think what it comes down to is that a good number of them actually believe in Christianity and have not discarded the aspects of sexual morality that come with it (barring liberal Christianity of course), including believing masturbation is a sin. A lot of them don't have the strength to actually stop. So they can go a couple directions from there, either continue in a state of internal conflict, find the strength to stop, or take the standard narcissistic modern approach and redefine their moral beliefs to fit their lifestyle. I know we live in an era where nothing is ever supposed to hurt our self-esteem, or heaven forbid require us to make any difficult changes to our lifestyle, but perhaps not everyone believes they're God's gift to the world and never do anything wrong. Some people recognize that they are sinners even if they don't stop.

Why is "redefining your moral beliefs" so wrong? I'd rather live my life exploring the world and reaching my own conclusions about morality than unquestioningly accept someone else's moral code. There's no standard here. These are difficult questions for a reason, and if they're not difficult I kind of question whether you're doing it right. There's more to the world than rules and baseless self-restraint.

Because what's the point in believing anything's wrong if you're just going to change it every time you do something in violation?

You've accepted another persons moral code, or the moral code of another body which likes to think that it doesn't change but it does. Views of what is right and wrong are based on interaction with other individuals. An isolated person has an isolated mind. Internalising one moral code without recourse to experience or empathy for that which you cannot or do not experience but others do, is morally flawed. If you are not challenged by the outside world to constantly re-evaluate the moral code that you have chosen to internalise to best fit an ideology you concurrently subscribe to, you are not holding a morally superior position.

[TJ in Oregon]

You've accepted another persons moral code, or the moral code of another body which likes to think that it doesn't change but it does. Views of what is right and wrong are based on interaction with other individuals. An isolated person has an isolated mind. Internalising one moral code without recourse to experience or empathy for that which you cannot or do not experience but others do, is morally flawed. If you are not challenged by the outside world to constantly re-evaluate the moral code that you have chosen to internalise to best fit an ideology you concurrently subscribe to, you are not holding a morally superior position.

None of that actually defines a moral code though and neither does empathy. Whether or not shares feelings with someone else or feels for them doesn't give any information about whether a particular act is morally licit or not. What does depends on the framework from which those moral beliefs come from. That's why unless your moral basis is sociological journals, no number of studies saying something is beneficial say anything about whether or not it's morally licit. It's also why we're inevitably talking past each other in these threads: there's no point in arguing about whether or not something is moral when we don't have the same definition of morality, unless we can argue against the other's point of view from within the moral framework they subscribe to. In order to convince each other, you would have to convince me there is no God and I would have to convince you there is a God and He's the God of Christianity, among a number of things stemming from those statements. I could be wrong, but I suspect neither of our beliefs are founded upon the moral qualms of masturbation. Our moral views of masturbation stem from something much larger than that particular act or who we'll encounter who does or doesn't masturbate.

In the context of Christianity (which I'm invoking for two reasons: 1. I am a Christian 2. The majority of Americans are Christians and the American public is the subject of this branch of the discussion), masturbation is sinful. If jmfcst wasn't banned I'm sure he would rattle off a dozen Bible quotes agreeing with that statement (I'll spare you ) but it's clear from both scripture and tradition (meaning the hermeneutic of continuity) that masturbation is sinful in the context of Christianity. To accept that moral framework and then reject its conclusion doesn't make any sense. However, people will do that because it's easier and makes them feel good about themselves. Other people instead conclude that their framework of morality is still correct, just that they aren't perfectly moral themselves. The latter, which Hagrid doesn't seem to think possible, is the identity of the people we were discussing and likely how many of them arrive at their beliefs on the subject.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

The Bible also talks about stoning disobedient women, so I err on the side of using a critical lens.

And I never said it's not possible that people continue to masturbate despite believing its a sin. In fact, I conceded that a significant number of people probably do. But I also qualified it by saying it's a shame that they're jeopardizing their mental health with such a contradiction between their actions and "morals," especially when I think, in the end, there's nothing particularly corrupt about fondling your junk. The only reason it's wrong is because a bunch of puritans wrote it in scripture thousands of years ago and people still use "rigid obedience" as a criterion for superiority.

And you know, you talk about "feeling better about oneself" like it's some superficial thing, but I think a positive image of (and relationship with) "self" is extremely important. I'm not saying you must masturbate to feel good about yourself; I'm saying that willfully denying yourself pleasure and ignoring the things that make you feel good do not equal righteousness. And if they do, it's not a righteousness I want any part of. I want to be happy. If that means jacking off every night and falling in love with a man, so be it.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Somehow I doubt jmfsct thinks masturbation is genuinely sinful... just a guess.

[Napoleon]

Somehow I doubt jmfsct thinks masturbation is genuinely sinful... just a guess.

He masturbates with his wifes panties on his head lol

[Mordecai]

1) Agree
2) Agree
3) Agree
4) Disagree
5) Depends on the context, but agree
6) Agree
7) Agree

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

What ?

(Gallup graphic)

Twice as many Americans think the death penalty is moral than American teenagers having sex ? Or watching regular porn ?

Insane !

American prudery + American bloodlust = Wacky, wacky poll results

[New_Conservative]

Agreed with first 3, disagreed with the rest.

[Idaho Conservative]

And my answers

1) Disagree
2) Disagree
3) Disagree
4) Agree
5) Disagree
6) Disagree
7) Disagree

Dude, Same! 

[Idaho Conservative]

I guess I understand the being a puritan about sex thing, but not living together before marriage just sounds like a profoundly stupid idea to me. You don't even have to sleep in the same bed if you want, but there's no way of knowing you're compatible if you don't live together first.

I guess if they wait for sex until marriage, it would technically be ok to share a living space, but I would advise against it to avoid temptation.

[Idaho Conservative]

Agree with all of them except for #4.

I am literally the complete inverse!

[HillGoose]

Agree on 1,2,3, and 4.

Disagree on 5,6, and 7.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

Agree with all except for no. 4

[Dr. MB]

1) Viewing pornographic material is ok.

2) It is a good idea for couples considering marriage to live together in order to decide whether or not they get along well enough to be married to one another.

3) It is ok for two people to get together for sex and not necessarily expect anything further. Sure, but it's not usually a good idea.

4) If a couple has children, they should stay married unless there is physical or emotional abuse. It's definitely a good idea, but I understand it doesn't always work out.

5) It is sometimes permissible for a married person to have sex with someone other than his/her spouse. Only if they are separated, or the other spouse explicitly allows for it.

6) It is ok for three or more consenting adults to live together in a sexual/romantic relationship. Sure, but it's a bit strange

7) I support abortion rights. Undecided and probably always will be.

[Idaho Conservative]

(Dis)Agree with all except for no. 4

There, fixed it for ya!