What's your religion? (user search)
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  What's your religion? (search mode)
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#1
opeboist
 
#2
atheist
 
#3
Catholic
 
#4
Anglican
 
#5
Protestant
 
#6
other Christian
 
#7
Jeiwsh
 
#8
Muslim
 
#9
other
 
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Author Topic: What's your religion?  (Read 11867 times)
Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« on: April 20, 2005, 08:49:48 PM »

My point is that the Church of England was founded in sin. The sins of Henry VIII. His belief that he had the RIGHT to divorce is more of his own vanity then any belief in true scripture. He was like the kid who never got what he wanted and got pissed and said, "I'm taking my ball and going home."
I think it would be naive to suggest that Pope Clement VII acted from the purest of motives. His decision to deny Henry VIII an annulment was partially based, no doubt, in his fear of the Holy Roman Emperor. There were, after all, theological doubts relating to the validity of Henry's marriage to Catherine; she had previously been married to Henry's elder brother, Arthur.
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Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2005, 09:02:15 PM »

I think it would be naive to suggest that Pope Clement VII acted from the purest of motives. His decision to deny Henry VIII an annulment was partially based, no doubt, in his fear of the Holy Roman Emperor. There were, after all, theological doubts relating to the validity of Henry's marriage to Catherine; she had previously been married to Henry's elder brother, Arthur.

I was under the impression Henry had to seek special Papal dispensation to marry Catherine, so how he could then turn around and claim some years later his marriage was annullable on the basis it was doctrinally invalid is beyond me.
Pope Julius II did grant a papal dispensation, but there were some complications. The Pope first granted the dispensation in a private brief, but later did so again in a bull; I understand, moreover, that it was charged that the dispensation was illegally obtained in the first place.
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Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2005, 05:42:29 AM »

You've missed another factor.  England had just had a civil war and Henry's claim on the throne was very weak.
I am afraid that I must contradict this point of view. Henry VIII's father, Henry VII, did indeed have a very weak claim on the throne due to a potentially illegitimate lineage. Henry VII, however, consoldiated his position admirably well; his son had no succession problems at all.

However, you are absolutely correct that there were political reasons. If Henry VIII did not produce an heir, succession questions would indeed have been raised. The issue of papal revenue (first fruits, Peter's Pence, etc.) was certainly an important one. 
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Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2005, 02:16:07 PM »

It was imperative that their be male succession, from the country's viewpoint.  It wasn't a matter of sin, but a matter of state
I absolutely agree; I was just disagreeing, perhaps pedantically, on the point that Henry VIII's own claim was insecure.
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