kerry and gay marriage

[angus]

It is true that most of the people to actually get kicked out by the moderator have been those with Red icons, not Blue.  But some of us Blues are pretty weird too.  There are a handful of us that don't tow the party line that well, but we're generally all polite to one another.  That is observably not the case with the democrats, as I have also noticed.  Which, incidentally, is one of the reasons I am no longer a democrat.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I don't want to paint with a broad brush.

Opinions are, in my study, based on a triad: (1) information base, (2) form of analysis, and (3) value system.

Obviously,  none of us has complete (perfect) information, and I am delighted when other posters have cited relevant information of which I was previously unaware.

I am very disappointed where posters post pathetic (from pathos) arguments, and would prefer where reputable experts are cited (or even better), logical analysis presented.

Finally, I suspect many posters do not recognize others may share their values in general, they may understandably have a different priority in the importance of values where those values conflict in real life (forty years ago there was a major conflict in press coverage of criminal trials such as the Sheppard case,  the conflict was then know as 'free press v. fair trial").  Patrick Henry clearly illustrated this when he noted that he preferred liberty to peace (not that he disliked peace) when the two values were in conflict.

[angus]

hmm.  occasionally pathos may be employed for emphasis.

but yes, it works for general weirdness too  

your beef is about posters taking your thread off on tangents irrelevant to the topic.  everyone appreciates that.  But Kerry's inconsistent, and I couldn't really refute that indefinitely.  At first he and Bush were almost in exactly the same place when this became an issue.  Do you remember that?  Neither wanted to jump on anyone's reactionary bandwagon, but neither wanted to endorse what Justice Scalia called the homosexual agenda.  So the statements and pronouncements were vague.  Now they have been advised to take serious positions.  Patrick Buchanan style.  (no he's not my favorite patrick either)  Since Kerry's party seems to be a bit more fractured, he has a wider fence to straddle.  It is not unfortunate for him, as anything that sends him back to a job that is pretty much his, as long as he wants it, is not a bad deal.  And it is not necessarily unfortunate for the People, if you know what I mean.

none of this is relevant information of which your were previously unaware, but it may help to remind ourselves of the pressure under which these candidates operate.

[Gustaf]

Carl, rightwingnut has appropriately chosen his name, that's for sure, but his comments have been consistent.  I, too, took much of what he said as a joke at first, but now I think he's being serious.  He opposes gay marriage, but concedes that his opposition does not extend to making it illegal.  And there's certainly a Darwin award in it for anyone who stops the line of propagation with himself, wouldn't you think?

Gustaf and lidaker, you're watching waaaay too many George Bush speeches.  every other word these days is evil.  even the most zoroastrian of republicans knows to tone it down a little in polite conversation.

I didn't say anything about evil in my posts...

On Reps and Dems, there are reasons for angry young people usually being leftist. Also, the American mainstream is more Republican than Democratic, which makes for the Dems being more frustrated and also making them look more extremist.

[angus]

oops.  no you didn't.  

yes, the very young and the very old like big brother.

here in the middle, we take care of ourselves  

[Gustaf]

oops.  no you didn't.  

yes, the very young and the very old like big brother.

here in the middle, we take care of ourselves  

Yeah, that's part of it I guess. One could also say that those without a career can be more true to their principles...

[angus]

oops.  no you didn't.  

yes, the very young and the very old like big brother.

here in the middle, we take care of ourselves  

Yeah, that's part of it I guess. One could also say that those without a career can be more true to their principles...

yes, and a third description may be that the younger are more idealistic, those in the middle are more realistic, and the very oldest are the very wisest.

[Gustaf]

oops.  no you didn't.  

yes, the very young and the very old like big brother.

here in the middle, we take care of ourselves  

Yeah, that's part of it I guess. One could also say that those without a career can be more true to their principles...

yes, and a third description may be that the younger are more idealistic, those in the middle are more realistic, and the very oldest are the very wisest.

Yeah, I guess that's another one...

[angus]

related, but a little off-topic:

http://www.detnews.com/2004/politics/0404/24/politics-132249.htm

[CARLHAYDEN]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Is your definition of "reliable" those studies that agree with your prejudice?  Does the percentage of individuals who are being discriminated against change their needs for civil rights and liberty?

\

While I was researching another topic, came across this gem. The plaintiffs in Lawrence v. Texas (2003) in their brief admitted that only 2.8% of the male population was "gay, or bisexual" and that 1.4% of the femal population was "lesbian or bisexual."

They based their data on the National Health and Social Life Survey.

Seems to fall in the one to three per cent range I cited.

Sorry for the delay, but this info is NOT a priority for me, but it is nice to cite sources and correct errors when possible.