Senate Protest and Analysis Thread
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Author Topic: Senate Protest and Analysis Thread  (Read 303988 times)
SPC
Chuck Hagel 08
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« Reply #850 on: January 02, 2009, 01:13:50 PM »
« edited: January 02, 2009, 01:17:06 PM by Senator SPC »


Its not cordial to make it so that no other senator can properly propose a bill the whole session.  It'll take us weeks to sort through all your drivel with the result being 20 or so failed bills.

If you have a piece legislation to propose, I'll ask that the PPT move it up ahead of my legislation. Same for anyone else that has a piece of legislation to propose. And I believe that every piece of legislation deserves to be given a fair chance, and one should not be so certain about the outcome of such legislation.
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SPC
Chuck Hagel 08
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« Reply #851 on: January 02, 2009, 01:27:30 PM »

Someone attach a rider to a bill:

All legislation introduced to this point by Chuck Hagel 08 is tabled.

Surely legislation that was destined to fail wouldn't require a provision like that to be tabled.
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SPC
Chuck Hagel 08
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« Reply #852 on: January 02, 2009, 01:32:12 PM »

Someone attach a rider to a bill:

All legislation introduced to this point by Chuck Hagel 08 is tabled.

Surely legislation that was destined to fail wouldn't require a provision like that to be tabled.

It'd speed up the process.

Should the process be sped up for any other legislation that a senator deems "destined to fail"? I've already said that I'll allow any of the other senators to cut in front of me for one piece of legislation, I think that my legislation deserves a vote as well.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #853 on: January 02, 2009, 02:04:25 PM »

     You know, I was thinking, but wouldn't any attempt to actually use the TBA be a bill of attainder?
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SPC
Chuck Hagel 08
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« Reply #854 on: January 02, 2009, 02:05:16 PM »

     You know, I was thinking, but wouldn't any attempt to actually use the TBA be a bill of attainder?

Good point.
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Hashemite
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« Reply #855 on: January 02, 2009, 02:06:50 PM »

The Senate is now clogged up by ridiculous legislation. Great. Now the serious stuff will get put behind the silliness.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #856 on: January 02, 2009, 02:07:10 PM »

     You know, I was thinking, but wouldn't any attempt to actually use the TBA be a bill of attainder?

Good point.

     That occurred to me when Al said that legislatures usually don't throw people in prison. The bill itself is perfectly fine, but actually putting it into action would be unconstitutional.
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Lunar
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« Reply #857 on: January 02, 2009, 02:13:40 PM »

It shouldn't be hard to also address non-"ridiculous" legislation.

I am opposed to the bill in question. In real life the legislature does not imprison people after a quick vote. I'm not opposed to making trolling a criminal offense here, but this goes too far.

Fair enough.  Unfortunately this isn't real life, however, and it's a lot harder to ignore the crazy bum out on the street.  Also not sure how to define trolling
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Peter
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« Reply #858 on: January 02, 2009, 02:23:47 PM »

Someone attach a rider to a bill:

All legislation introduced to this point by Chuck Hagel 08 is tabled.
Perhaps a more legitimate way of bypassing this crisis would be to amend the Senate's Rules so that a Senator may only have a maximum of 2 pieces of legislation under consideration at any time, with the rule only enforced at the PPTs discretion (this would therefore avoid a massive amount of juggling the rest of the time when a Senator might end up with 3 pieces of legislation on the floor without having "stacked" the queue in the manner we have just seen
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Lunar
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« Reply #859 on: January 02, 2009, 02:31:27 PM »

Can't believe SPC actually introduced my joke act, I didn't realize he was serious Roll Eyes
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SPC
Chuck Hagel 08
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« Reply #860 on: January 02, 2009, 02:45:32 PM »

Someone attach a rider to a bill:

All legislation introduced to this point by Chuck Hagel 08 is tabled.
Perhaps a more legitimate way of bypassing this crisis would be to amend the Senate's Rules so that a Senator may only have a maximum of 2 pieces of legislation under consideration at any time, with the rule only enforced at the PPTs discretion (this would therefore avoid a massive amount of juggling the rest of the time when a Senator might end up with 3 pieces of legislation on the floor without having "stacked" the queue in the manner we have just seen

Done, and moved to #2 on the queue. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Can't believe SPC actually introduced my joke act, I didn't realize he was serious Roll Eyes

Maybe you shouldn't have tested the limits to which I would obey my campaign promises. Roll Eyes
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Lunar
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« Reply #861 on: January 03, 2009, 02:24:32 PM »

I wasn't here for your campaign, ah.

Well no more from me!

It looks like No troll banishment act will be needed and that Gustaf and MasterJedi need to be nominated for some kind of awards....
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SPC
Chuck Hagel 08
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« Reply #862 on: January 03, 2009, 02:48:14 PM »

I wasn't here for your campaign, ah.

Well no more from me!

It looks like No troll banishment act will be needed and that Gustaf and MasterJedi need to be nominated for some kind of awards....

That's good. Now the Senate can vote on the End to Clogging Bill first.
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Purple State
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« Reply #863 on: January 04, 2009, 03:13:06 PM »

Thought I'd throw an idea out to the Senate regarding some trolling legislation:

Troll Suppression and Rehabilitation Act

Clauses

(A) Trolling shall be declared a chargeable offense in the land of Atlasia at the request of a forum moderator and the discretion of the Attorney General.

(B) The act of trolling is to be defined as the use of meaningless or otherwise distracting and malignant posting to sidetrack or interrupt proper forum discussion.

(C) Upon a guilty verdict returned by a majority of jurors, the punishment for said trolling is to be determined by the justice hearing the case; but, the punishment must consist of at least 1 month of suspended voting rights and 6 months of suspension from office, if one is held, or at most 6 months of suspended voting rights and 1 year of suspension from office.
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Purple State
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« Reply #864 on: January 04, 2009, 03:19:29 PM »

This legislation is extraneous because the Moderators already hold this power. In fact, you lowered possible suspensions and gave the Attorney General discretion, instead of leaving things as is. The system in effect now is better for the banishment of trolls. Look what it has done to me. :-)

The mods have no power as far as office holding by run-of-the-mill trolls. They may be able to delete the posts of excessive users, but it did take quite a while to get to this point. I would like some proactive power by users to oust trolls from Atlasia.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #865 on: January 06, 2009, 06:50:13 AM »

I'd like to note that a subsidy of an industry is generally a poor idea since economic theory shows that it is bound to damage your own country financially. A tariff is better. And free trade is even better than that. If we want to help those that get hurt by international trade there are less costlier ways of going about it.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #866 on: January 06, 2009, 07:16:34 AM »

The point of the legislation in question isn't to make money for fantasyland, but to limit the damage caused by fantasyland's one-sided trade policies to areas traditionally dependent on the industries in question.

Probably the best thing to do would be to repeal all the existingde facto subsidies for other countries industries "free trade" acts and replace them with, you know, actual free trade agreements, but I don't think that's likely here.
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Peter
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« Reply #867 on: January 06, 2009, 03:30:07 PM »
« Edited: January 06, 2009, 03:32:14 PM by Peter »

Voting Whilst Banned Bill
1. It shall be a crime for any person to vote or attempt to vote in an Atlasian election whilst banned from doing so after being convicted in the Supreme Court and then sentenced to a ban from voting.
2. This crime shall be tried as though it were a crime under the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act.
3. Sentencing of the crime shall be by the presiding Justice; He may use any combination of the following as punishment, depending upon the severity of the offense:
i. Up to 3 months ban from voting in any Atlasian elections.
ii. Up to 6 months ban from holding any office under the Republic of Atlasia.

Contempt of Court Act
Section 1: Findings
The power of the Supreme Court to find persons to be in "contempt of court" is undefined in Atlasian Law, and whilst the offence exists in Common Law, it is desirable for the power to be expounded upon in Law.

Section 2: Contempt of Court
The presiding senior Judge of any Atlasian federal court may find a person in contempt for any of the following offences:
1. Failure to respond to a jury summons
2. Disrupting the proceedings of a federal court
3. Disobedience of a court order
4. Failure to appear as a witness when summoned by a Court.
5. Failure to produce documents when instructed by a Court.

Section 3: Punishment of Contempt of Court
1. This crime shall be tried as though it were a crime under the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act.
2. Sentencing of the crime shall be by the presiding Justice; He may use any combination of the following as punishment, depending upon the severity of the offense:
i. Up to 3 months ban from voting in any Atlasian elections.
ii. Up to 6 months ban from holding any office under the Republic of Atlasia.
iii. Removal or Suspension from the Supreme Court Bar, if applicable.

I should like any Senator to introduce the above bills. Recent Court cases have raised the possibility of the need for the Courts to hold persons in contempt and whilst I have no doubt that should Xahar (or any future convicted murderer criminal) attempt to vote, the vote would be discounted, I do nonetheless think that we should attempt to provide a sufficient deterant against convicts voting. Also, in many ways I see attempt to flout a ban as the closest an online community can come to a jail-breakout.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #868 on: January 06, 2009, 05:38:28 PM »

The point of the legislation in question isn't to make money for fantasyland, but to limit the damage caused by fantasyland's one-sided trade policies to areas traditionally dependent on the industries in question.

Probably the best thing to do would be to repeal all the existingde facto subsidies for other countries industries "free trade" acts and replace them with, you know, actual free trade agreements, but I don't think that's likely here.

I understand the intent. But I'm studying trade policy right now (my exam is next week) and what I'm saying is that you can get the exact same protection for those areas through a tariff, but at much greater benefit to your country.

But I sort of forget what you did to Atlasia during these past years. Is it still like the US or did you have your wish and turned it into a small country of no world significance? Because in the latter case the choice between tariff and subsidy becomes less important, but the gains from free trade becomes higher.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #869 on: January 07, 2009, 12:03:02 AM »

I introduced Peter's bills.
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Lunar
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« Reply #870 on: January 19, 2009, 06:25:54 AM »

Special Prosecutor Bill

1. The Attorney General, with the approval of the President, shall be empowered to appoint a special prosecutor to prosecute cases on behalf of the Republic of Atlasia.

2. The special prosecutor must be a member in good standing of the Supreme Court Bar.

3. In the absence of the Attorney General, the President shall be empowered to make appointments under this Act.

4. Nothing within this Act shall be construed such as to remove the right of the Attorney General to prosecute cases of behalf of the Republic of Atlasia.



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If such a special prosecutor misbehaves, how will he or she be removed from his or her position of authority?  


this whole bill seems incredibly vague and I hate it unless more details are added Tongue

We just had an epic scandal on the part of our own attorney general and its shameful that there are not more conditions int his bill so soon after
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #871 on: January 20, 2009, 05:51:23 PM »

Special Prosecutor Bill

1. The Attorney General, with the approval of the President, shall be empowered to appoint a special prosecutor to prosecute cases on behalf of the Republic of Atlasia.

2. The special prosecutor must be a member in good standing of the Supreme Court Bar.

3. In the absence of the Attorney General, the President shall be empowered to make appointments under this Act.

4. Nothing within this Act shall be construed such as to remove the right of the Attorney General to prosecute cases of behalf of the Republic of Atlasia.



Sponsor: Bacon King


If such a special prosecutor misbehaves, how will he or she be removed from his or her position of authority?  


this whole bill seems incredibly vague and I hate it unless more details are added Tongue

We just had an epic scandal on the part of our own attorney general and its shameful that there are not more conditions int his bill so soon after

     The same way the Deputy SoFA is removed, most likely.
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Purple State
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« Reply #872 on: January 20, 2009, 06:32:44 PM »

I think an explicit clause should be added to the Special Prosecutor Bill enumerating just that. Leaving ambiguities is never good. And by no means should the post be permanent or outlast the Attorney General's post. This is just to help lessen the workload on the AG.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #873 on: January 20, 2009, 06:39:11 PM »

I think an explicit clause should be added to the Special Prosecutor Bill enumerating just that. Leaving ambiguities is never good. And by no means should the post be permanent or outlast the Attorney General's post. This is just to help lessen the workload on the AG.

     That as well as be there for when the AG has an obvious conflict of interest. If we had had BRTD as AG, & opebo were charged with some sort of crime, he obviously would not be fit to carry out the prosecution.
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Purple State
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« Reply #874 on: January 30, 2009, 01:59:17 AM »

I'd like to protest the complete inability of this Senate to do things. You have a long to-do list, including possibly calling a Constitutional Convention, reshaping the government. Let's see some discussions and voting here.
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