Senate Protest and Analysis Thread

[Donerail]

Airport Renaming Act

1) Mondale National Airport shall henceforth be known as Purple State National Airport.
2) Arbenz International Airport shall henceforth be known as Colin Wixted International Airport.

Couldn't you rename other airports instead of the ones that have already been renamed?

Responding here to avoid clutter...
The reasoning behind this is that both of these airports were originally named after conservatives, and a very liberal Senate we had a while back decided it would be funny to anger the conservatives and change it to two liberals, leading many to have bitterness over an act of partisan hackery. This bill is an attempt to find common ground by instead naming the airports after two respected former Presidents.

Ah. Seems like a great idea, but is the Senate able to do that (rename airports which lie within the territorial borders of the Mideast and are not part of a federal district)?

[Donerail]

Ah. Seems like a great idea, but is the Senate able to do that (rename airports which lie within the territorial borders of the Mideast and are not part of a federal district)?

We did once.

Yes, but was that occurrence a legitimate exercise of federal power?

[Donerail]

Yes, but was that occurrence a legitimate exercise of federal power?

I believe so.  The two airports are national and international; that justifies federal involvement.

So if an airport has (inter)national in its name, the federal government can change said name? So if there's an airport (say Key West International Airport), and I'm a Senator, I can make a bill renaming it after me?

[Donerail]

I think what you're talking about is this, or possibly this.

[Donerail]

Articles of Impeachment

Attorney General Fuzzybigfoot shall hereby be tried by impeachment on the following five counts:

The High Crimes and Misdemeanors of

Armed robbery.
Burglary.
Criminal trespassing.
Criminal breach of the peace.
Conspiracy against rights.

Following impeachment by the People on any or all of the above counts, Fuzzybigfoot shall be considered immediately removed from office and banned from holding any office under the Republic of Atlasia for a period of no less than twelve (12) months.

Did I miss something here?

If you missed anything, check in the IDS Legislature page, the office of Emperor PiT, and the office of the Attorney General. https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=150826.msg3326604#msg3326604. Basically, Wormy thinks Fuzzy should be impeached for his actions.

[Donerail]

Articles of Impeachment

Attorney General Fuzzybigfoot shall hereby be tried by impeachment on the following five counts:

The High Crimes and Misdemeanors of

Armed robbery.
Burglary.
Criminal trespassing.
Criminal breach of the peace.
Conspiracy against rights.

Following impeachment by the People on any or all of the above counts, Fuzzybigfoot shall be considered immediately removed from office and banned from holding any office under the Republic of Atlasia for a period of no less than twelve (12) months.

Did I miss something here?

If you missed anything, check in the IDS Legislature page, the office of Emperor PiT, and the office of the Attorney General. https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=150826.msg3326604#msg3326604. Basically, Wormy thinks Fuzzy should be impeached for his actions.

Quite odd.  I don't see how what Fuzzy is doing is unlawful in any way.  And what do armed robbery and burglary have anything to do with this?

His armed agents broke into buildings throughout the IDS and stole large quantities of valuables.

[Donerail]

His armed agents broke into buildings throughout the IDS and stole large quantities of valuables.

Is that confirmed by the GM/SoIA?  Otherwise, I don't see where this goes (as is, I'm inclined not to support this).

He said his agents were seizing all Dibble-exchange facilities throughout the IDS, and the SoIA reported such in his newspaper thing.

[Donerail]

His armed agents broke into buildings throughout the IDS and stole large quantities of valuables.

Is that confirmed by the GM/SoIA?  Otherwise, I don't see where this goes (as is, I'm inclined not to support this).

He said his agents were seizing all Dibble-exchange facilities throughout the IDS, and the SoIA reported such in his newspaper thing.

You're citing Jake's perceived understanding of my order, rather than the order itself. 

As you can see in the text above, I did not order my agents to steal anything.  I simply commanded them to take control of the exchange facilities so no more Dibbles could be distributed.  They didn't move anything.  When I ordered them to stand down after a standoff with local police forces, they left and didn't take anything with them. 

It would be great if you could simply base your talking points on actual facts.  But I'm getting the feeling that you won't, considering how you were already in my office attempting to decipher the legal semantics for yourself, before giving up and taking on someone elses viewpoint as your own.

Of course I'm citing Jake's understanding of your order; when someone asks for information from "the GM/SoIA", one typically cites something from either the GM or SoIA. I would assume Ben had already seen the order himself, and was asking if Jake or Shua had posted anything related to it, which Jake had, and that is what I cited.

As for the robbery charge, while your agents did not move the Dibbles, they did take control of the places where all the Dibbles were, thus removing possession of the Dibbles from its rightful owner (the private corporation that manufactures them). Robbery is defined as "taking or attempting to take something of value from someone without that person's permission or intent"; while the Dibbles were not moved, they were taken from the distributor (seeing as how they could no longer distribute). To address your second point, theft is theft, no matter how you slice it; if you break into someone's home and have their jewelry and flat-screen in your hands, but then they wake up and you say, "Just kidding", give it back, and leave, they're perfectly justified in calling the cops for larceny. Returning the Dibbles to the possession of the private manufacturing/distribution company does not make it not-theft. And yes, this is based on the definition of larceny in English common law, or as you put it, an Actual Fact™. And also, my viewpoint is my own viewpoint, and I certainly did not adopt someone else's views as my own, but made my decision based on the facts of the case; whether or not you like my conclusions is another matter.

[Donerail]

There are no procedures in the OSPR for impeachments that I can see. The Constitution is thus the only guide and if I am not mistaken, it places the ball in the court of the Chief Justice to proceed with them, correct?

Based on the Constitution, the CJ will start a new thread to consider the impeachment (which I assume means cases will be presented for both sides, debate, etc), and the Senators just act as a jury.

[Donerail]

Hey, Yankee, you know these kinds of things. Do I have to have the movers get everything out of my office when Nappy (or Tweed) swears in, or do I have to be done when Kal (pending confirmation) swears in?

[Donerail]

Sans the artwork of the Dome of the Rock (mine is of the Palais des Nations) and also the armed Hamas gunmen, this is pretty much what my office looks like. Is it worth it to make a plaster cast?

[Donerail]

I suspect the half of the Senate in support of the Atlasia-Israel Defense and Security Cooperation Treaty could eventually develop into such a threat, and it's no secret that I have some degree of distrust for neo-realists when it comes to foreign policy.

Judging by the legislation you have introduced so far, Senator, you are much more dangerous to the continued existence of Atlasia as we know it than any such bloc. The Internationale? Changing our flag to some kind of socialist propaganda? Really?

[Donerail]

Hey, isn't the Antarctic Incorporation Act supposed to be 3rd in the queue?

[Donerail]

In regards to the National University bill proposed by Senators Sbane/Scott: Given that currently the only federal universities are West Point and Annapolis (as well as Air Force Academy, Coast Guard Academy, Merchant Marine Academy, University of Health Sciences, NDU, etc), would it be feasible to make the universities specified in the bill to be specifically schools of political science, law, international relations, economics, that kinda thing, to serve the same purpose as the others, training our youth to join the civilian government sphere?

[Donerail]

In regards to the National University bill proposed by Senators Sbane/Scott: Given that currently the only federal universities are West Point and Annapolis (as well as Air Force Academy, Coast Guard Academy, Merchant Marine Academy, University of Health Sciences, NDU, etc), would it be feasible to make the universities specified in the bill to be specifically schools of political science, law, international relations, economics, that kinda thing, to serve the same purpose as the others, training our youth to join the civilian government sphere?

Well, I wouldn't have a problem with covering those studies with funds from the bill, but I'm not in favor of restricting funds to schools that only specialize in those fields.

Then what is the point of setting up a national university system if not to train students for government work?

[Donerail]

In regards to the National University bill proposed by Senators Sbane/Scott: Given that currently the only federal universities are West Point and Annapolis (as well as Air Force Academy, Coast Guard Academy, Merchant Marine Academy, University of Health Sciences, NDU, etc), would it be feasible to make the universities specified in the bill to be specifically schools of political science, law, international relations, economics, that kinda thing, to serve the same purpose as the others, training our youth to join the civilian government sphere?

Well, I wouldn't have a problem with covering those studies with funds from the bill, but I'm not in favor of restricting funds to schools that only specialize in those fields.

Then what is the point of setting up a national university system if not to train students for government work?

The purpose of it is to train students for work in general.

Why not just send funding to the regions for their already existing colleges?

[Donerail]

Regions are free to use their own money to create new universities as they wish.

Yes, but why pay millions of dollars to create new universities instead of just sending it to the regions to expand their current universities (and link the funding to expansions in economically-distressed areas if you want)?

[Donerail]

It's been spotted!

[Donerail]

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This would give BRAC capabilities to this Commission (without the need to create a new commission specifically for BRAC). I would request that one of you kind Senators introduce this for me.

[Donerail]

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Although I support Sen. Oakvale's legislation, I would recommend the Senate to consider legislation that delineates specifically which federal departments in 'America' go under which department in Atlasia. I know the DoEA includes the Department of State (Foreign Affairs (including protecting/assisting citizens living/travelling abroad, assisting businesses in the int'l marketplace, coordinating int'l activities of other agencies (including official visits), keeping public informed about foreign events, and providing automobile registration for diplomatic vehicles) and the imprinting of the Great Seal; however, the SoS is who (IRL) a President or VP tenders his resignation to, a custom I do not believe we have in place), the Department of Defense (Army, Navy, Air Force, DARPA, Defense Intelligence Agency, Defense Logistics Agency, Missile Defense Agency, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, National Reconnaissance Office, National Security Agency, Pentagon Force Protection Agency, National Defense University, National War College, National Security Resources Board, National Security Council, Joint Chiefs, Inspector General, Combatant Commands, National Guard Bureau, etc.), the Agency for International Development, and the UN Ambassadorship.

Who would control Commerce? They seem to be concerned with both external and internal trade. Homeland Security includes both internal (FEMA) and external (border/immigration) components. Would the Intelligence Community be part of the DoEA or independent under the control of the President (specifically the CIA)?

Of course the Census Bureau is also part of the Department of Commerce IRL, and here it's independent. I'm assuming Treasury and the Mint go under DoIA, but I could be wrong there too.

[Donerail]

Haven't heard from him since last year. I'm not going to disappear, though

[Donerail]

Total procurement of each variant of the F-35 shall be reduced by 25%, to be offset by purchase of additional F/A-18, F-16, A-10, and AV-8B aircraft.

Considering that the last new Harrier was built in 1997, any AV-8's that might be procured are going to have to come from buying used aircraft.  The UK stopped flying its Harriers a couple years ago, but they weren't built to the AV-8B standard, but their own British standard.

And we have announced our intention to purchase Britain's entire inventory of Harrier IIs, primarily for spare parts, but we could rip out the British avionics and replace them with our own for significantly less than it'd cost to buy new F-35Bs.

The A-10 situation is even more comical.  The last all new A-10 was built in 1984 and unlike the Harrier, there are no used foreign models to be bought.

The A-10 would primarily involve upgrades to older aircraft in order to bring them back into service. We currently operate 345 A-10s out of 716 built. This would primarily involve upgrading old A-10As to A-10Cs, enhancing their service life, new targeting systems, etc.


Though thanks for pointing that out. It really should be "procurement", not "purchase".

[Donerail]

Is there any way to declare legislation clearly frivolous and dilatory before it reaches the floor? Snowstalker's legislation about reliving his Call of Duty fantasies about blasting Germans notwithstanding, the legislation is clearly pointless, frivolous, and stupid and I'd really prefer the Senate not waste its time with such matters.