Has anyone hear ever served?

[lidaker]

No. In Sweden it's compulsory with seven or nine months of military training after high school, but I sort of avoided the draft. Told the psychologist I couldn't sleep in the same room as other people etc. I had better things to do.

[lidaker]

No. In Sweden it's compulsory with seven or nine months of military training after high school, but I sort of avoided the draft. Told the psychologist I couldn't sleep in the same room as other people etc. I had better things to do.

That is your view and it is fair enough, if I lived in Sweden however I would certainly serve, I can't see why you wouldn't. Sweden hasn't had a war since the 19th century, early 19th century at that.

I must say I agree with StatesRights, it is rather sad that you have better things to do than serve your country like everyone else your age.

Yep. But most Swedish liberals and conservatives aren't very fond of their country, sadly.

And most don't serve anymore, since they don't need a lot of people. But I intend to do it.

You have attacked my patriotism!! Noticed it three weeks to late, but anyway.

Avoiding the draft in Sweden has nothing to do with lack of patriotism. As you point out we haven't had a war since 1809 and we won't join one in the foreseeable future either since we are "neutral", not part of any military alliance. So military training in Sweden means basically nothing since the skills they learn you will never be used. At that time in my life, I wanted to get myself an education, not run around in the woods for nine months. I'm sorry I had to lie, but there was no other way. Today, I think it's voluntary to do the training since we're basically dismantling our military.

Secondly, we don't really have patriotism or nationalism in Sweden. We are probably one of the least nationalistic countries in the world. In one respect, that's good, since it means we don't have a huge problem with racism - at least officially - we are one of the few countries in Europe who don't have a populist/racist political party in the parliament.

[lidaker]

I don't think it's a matter of principle, since no principle is involved. If it was possible to become a UN soldier or something I might have done it, but my test marks were too bad for that. So it only means running around in the woods for seven or nine months - not fruitful in any way, not to me, not to my country.

Yes, there are actually some bad things about being too "unpatriotic". At least about the hole "denationalized" neutrailty psychology that we have had for so long in this country. It makes people more narrow-minded in a way, sort of afraid of the outside world.

[lidaker]

I still don't think it's a matter of principle because there's no chance a situation will emerge in which we must 'defend our liberties' etc. At least not as soldiers in the Swedish army. When I "did the lump" it was pretty meaningless and I guess it still is. If it's possible to take part in an EU or UN army it's another thing.

As to patriotism, I'm not sure it would help the immigrants if we got more 'secure' of ourselves. Still, we don't have a racist party and thank God for that. And the hole EU-skepticism issue, hasn't that very much to do with people not being ready to dismantle the nation state or at least to adjust to new realities? It might be a question of 'welfare nationalism' - we are sort of afraid of the outside world because we still think our society is the best in the world.

[lidaker]

By new realities I mean that globalization requires global solutions - the nation state is getting too small. That's why I'm not very high on it. And I still think there's an element of fear in our relation to the outside world, seems like we don't want to take part of it, though it's not a question of nationalism or xenophobia... it has probably much to do with our long-time neutrality.

[lidaker]

Only if we want to keep the state omnipotent...globalization is making us freer, a true liberalization. I don't want the politicians to ruin that. Secondly, cooperation does not have to equal creating bigger states. Unless we're gonna include the whole world we will still have to cooperate with other soverign states. Why not do so all the way?

Well, there are no other forums in which to cooperate with other countries, EU is a start...

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You might be on to something there... but remember the people continue to vote for the social dems although they're ruining our democracy... so maybe the people really is to blame

[lidaker]

I strongly suspect the EU will work as a barrier against the rest of the world, with its protectionist agricultural policy and anti-Americanism, combined with nostalgic Euronationalism.

That I agree on. It's a big and legitimate objection. That's not the kind of EU I would like to have and I don't think it's the EU Folkpartiet wants either...

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I agree with Bosse Lundgren on this. We actually have a collectivist mentality in Sweden - mixed with a big portion of Jante's Law - as a result of our long-time social democratic hegemony. Take from the rich and give to the poor. Which has led Moderaterna to become an elitist party only interested in the interests of the rich - although that's changing with Fredrik Reinfeldt, and that's a good thing...

[lidaker]

Interesting point!

As to moderaterna... I'm not sure if he's able to win either although I'll move to another country if the social democrats get another four years... I would favor a merging of parties on the right-wing side since that might strengthen them.