Religion

[Gustaf]

Since most European countries are secular it doesn't make a lot of sense to force them into being christian all in a sudden. Those who are constitutionally religious (usually catholic countries), Poland for example, did throw a fuss about it. Also, you have to remember that we have a lot of moslems in Europe, and can expect a lot more in the future (immigration, if Turkey joins the EU, etc), whereas a huge majority of people in the US are christians, a fact that isn't likely to change rapidly.

[Gustaf]

Somehow I don't think the existance or non-existance of God will be solved on a YaBB board about U.S. politics.

Well put! Also, let people have their faiths!

[Gustaf]

And as I said your choice.  But what happens someday if we ( believers) are right and you are wrong and are thrown into hell for not believing?

I know I get much comfort from the Lord and could not imagine a life without him.  If ( and by no means am I thinking this) God is not real , what am I out fro believing?

What if another religion were right, and you get thrown into hell anyway

For non-believers that could be a very valid point. And what if one, for example, would refuse to find homosexuality sinful, and end up in hell despite being christian? (or any of the endless other issues where there is controversy about how to be a good christian) For you it might be simple since you believe, but I don't think it would be an obvious choice for non-believers.

[Gustaf]

I think it is pressed with different fervor. The Swedish Lutheran church is mostly composed of socialists and I very much doubt that is believes homosexuality sinful. I was actually born into that church, so I, and close to 10 million Swedes, might be a heretic to you. And what about that American church which elected a homosexual bishop?

[Gustaf]

Well i was asking to learn.  The church here is still fighting about it, they are still talking of breaking into 2 parts and so not sure how that will come out.

OK, but churches are different and now you learned abot another! There is no simple answer to what makes a good christian. That was basically what I was trying to say.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good question!

[Gustaf]

I hope you understand I made the women comment, one b/c its true , and to lighten the mood on the topic a bit.

With such strong views on this Mig, are you gay?

Hm, just so you don't get disappointed if you come here, Scandinavia is not a paradise, exclusively populated by beatiful people...

I don't want my country to become a Thailand!

[Gustaf]

Now, who are you referring to? Actually, I thought most of our royal family looked pretty good (they beat your presidential family, I am sure! )

[Gustaf]

Well, in all fairness, we have had the same royal family for decades. I could pick any preidential family from the last 30 years and compare if I want. Which one looked worse?

[Gustaf]

Don't get the Thailand comment, please explain.

Been to Denmark only and a lot of continental Europe and England.  Very interesting place with lots of beautful women.

Thailand is a country where people go to have sex. I thought that was well-known. I don't think our princesses look that bad? But Migrendel was perhaps talking about the male members, and I will not pas judgement on them

I have never seen pictures of the Bush family, anyone has a quick link, and I will determine whether they win. But as I say above, I bet you have had a number of ugly presidential families in the past, and they all count!

Btw, isn't it a little funny that a discussion about religion turned into this? I bet Osama and his boys would take this a clear sign of the decadense of the west!

[Gustaf]

Actually Bin Laden has a string of mistressess and likes prositutes.

Back to Relgion...
Opinions on the Marprelate Tracts?

Well, yeah, he does. But check out my Oscar Wilde quote in my signature...

I am not familiar with the Marprelate Tracts, to be honest.

[Gustaf]

I thought agnosticism just meant that you state you don't know that there is a God, but don't know there isn't either, as opposed to an atheist who know there isn't.

While I used to be an atheist, I find agnosticism more philosophically sound at present.

Doesn't agnosticism state that "truth is unknowable"...or is it "there is no truth"?

Either way, that idea seems self-contradictory...If a person believes there is no truth, how can they believe that the statement "there is no truth" is true?

Or, if the person believes truth is unknowable, then it is not knowable whether the statement "truth is unknowable" is true or not.

Basically, it seems to me that the agnostic is really admitting that the only thing he/she knows is nothing!

[Gustaf]

Agnostic comes from the Greek word for knowledge.
Gnostic means "one with knowledge"(and was the name of an early loony cult)

"A" means without or signifies an opposite.

So A-Gnostic means "one without knowledge", ie; someone who is not sure.

Yes, I vaguely recall that story about the gnostics...

Thanks for clearing this up, btw!

[Gustaf]

I think your hair-raisingly literal interpretation of agnosticism is unwarranted. I don't mean to thrust a solipsistic viewpoint into the fray, nor posit in favor of Hume's theory, even though I think it has its merits, but I will say that I meant agnosticism to mean the state in which one does not believe the evidence or contradiction of God's existence to be strong enough to say definitively in favor of either position. I hope this clears it up.

I don't know who you're directing your post at, but that was what I was saying, just for the record...