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Author Topic: Religion  (Read 21041 times)
jravnsbo
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« on: December 30, 2003, 10:24:08 AM »

--so are we supposed to talk about god, guns and gays or not? Smiley


Howard Dean 'finds' Jesus

Democrats have been trying hard in recent years to squeeze God into their politics, perceiving that Republicans have an edge on invoking the Creator to bless their policies. Democrats worry they suffer from a "God gap."

Bill Clinton and Al Gore, with their Southern Baptist backgrounds, were fluent in the language of religion, though not always in its personal application. Who can forget Easter Sunday 1996, when President Clinton emerged from church flashing a Bible for the cameras and later returning to the White House, where Monica Lewinsky got down on her knees to perform an act that did not resemble prayer?

Clinton and Gore often quoted what they said were verses of Scripture, which turned out to be incorrect and/or misapplied. And now Howard Dean will rush in where political angels have feared to tread and try to advance the theological ball down the field to see if he can score votes for his candidacy.

In an interview with the Boston Globe (Dec. 25), Dean announced that he is a "committed believer in Jesus Christ." He told writer Sarah Schweitzer that he plans to include references to Jesus and God in his speeches as he campaigns down South. That's the land of Confederate battle flags and pickup trucks Dean so recently disparaged. In the Globe interview, he said Southerners understand religious talk better than his fellow New Englanders. Yes, that "vast Unitarian wasteland of the Northeast," as Charles Colson has jokingly called it, is the latest target of Dean's regional stereotyping.

Dean is from a Congregationalist background, a liberal denomination that does not believe in ministerial authority or church hierarchy. Each Congregationalist believes he is in direct contact with God and is entitled to sort out truth for himself. Dean's wife is Jewish and his two children are being raised Jewish, which is strange at best, considering the two faiths take a distinctly different view of Jesus.

What exactly does Dean believe about Jesus, and how is it relevant to his presidential candidacy? "Christ was someone who sought out people who were disenfranchised," he told the Globe, "people who were left behind." Dean makes it sound as if He might have been a Democrat. "He fought against self-righteousness of people who had everything," the candidate continued. "He was a person who set an extraordinary example that has lasted 2,000 years, which is pretty inspiring when you think about it."

Not really. If that is all Jesus was (or is), then he is just another entry in Bartlett's Familiar Quotations, to be read or not, according to one's inspirational need.

C.S. Lewis brilliantly dealt with this watered-down view of Jesus and what He did in the book "Mere Christianity." Said Lewis, who thought about such things at a far deeper level than Howard Dean, "I'm trying here to prevent anyone from saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I can't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg - or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God - or else a madman or something worse."

One hopes that the next journalist who gets a chance to ask Dean about this will inquire as to which Jesus he is talking about, if for no other reason than to gauge whether Dean is being sincere or a political opportunist who seeks to bamboozle Southern religious Democrats. That reporter might also survey Christians in New England (there are more than Dean thinks) as to whether they are as offended by his reference to their region as Southerners were to his characterization of their symbols and driving choices.

I can't wait to see how Dean panders to Californians. Fruits and nuts, anyone?

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jravnsbo
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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2003, 11:23:29 AM »

Well i have many thoughts on Religiona dn definately believe in Jesus as the Christ.

However, I have never understood those that don't believe.  My thought was why not?  even if a Weak believer, wouldn't it make more sense to believe it God in case he is real and someday you have to face him on judgment day and you were a nonbeliever.  

as to the Gods guns and gays, it just seemed hypocrtical of Dean to say we didn't need to talk about them and then he comes out declares he needs to talk baout his faith more in the South.  Talk about the pandering politician.
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2003, 12:10:13 PM »

Playing to the crowd is not what i have a problem with, either party go and get allt he voters you can, BUT to say that "gods, guns and gays shouldn't be discussed and then to come out and pander to those voters by talking about God after announcing you are going to do that is a major case of hypocricy.


So what if Dean plays to the crowd?
He's always done that sort of thing, as has every other senior political figure world over(including, indeed especially, Bush)
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2003, 12:12:45 PM »

And as I said your choice.  But what happens someday if we ( believers) are right and you are wrong and are thrown into hell for not believing?

I know I get much comfort from the Lord and could not imagine a life without him.  If ( and by no means am I thinking this) God is not real , what am I out fro believing?


To jravnsbo:
I would only believe in such a thing if my heart was completely satisfied that it was true. I don't wish to be a half-hearted folllower.
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jravnsbo
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Posts: 1,888


« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2003, 12:27:18 PM »
« Edited: March 05, 2005, 05:38:38 PM by Peter Bell »

Well being a good person and a good Christian is more than just one issue. 

Not sure of a religion that doesn't think homosexuality is sinful, are there some?  really asking here?
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2003, 12:46:13 PM »
« Edited: March 05, 2005, 05:40:12 PM by Peter Bell »

I think it is pressed with different fervor. The Swedish Lutheran church is mostly composed of socialists and I very much doubt that is believes homosexuality sinful. I was actually born into that church, so I, and close to 10 million Swedes, might be a heretic to you. And what about that American church which elected a homosexual bishop?

Well i was asking to learn.  The church here is still fighting about it, they are still talking of breaking into 2 parts and so not sure how that will come out.

No your church is not heretic to me.  That is what they believe.  Plus with all the beautiful scandinavian women why would anyone up there want to be gay?  Smiley Smiley
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jravnsbo
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Posts: 1,888


« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2003, 12:48:07 PM »
« Edited: March 05, 2005, 05:41:49 PM by Peter Bell »

That's not a very Christian attitude is it?

I believe it is very Christian.  If you would convince just one person to believe and they are saved from eternal damnation it would be worth all I have in life. 

As I have said Jesus loves us all and wants us to go and sin no more.  I believe that if on your last day with your last breath you repent you can be saved if you really believe it.
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jravnsbo
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Posts: 1,888


« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2003, 12:17:30 AM »

well the Catholic church has always been against homosexuality, that is not surprising.
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jravnsbo
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Posts: 1,888


« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2003, 10:51:53 AM »
« Edited: March 05, 2005, 05:44:34 PM by Peter Bell »

To Realpolitik:
I'm sorry for being vague. I meant Calvinism in the modern evangelical sense, rather than the reformationist Calvinist doctrine.
To jravnsbo:
I would venture to say people are gay in Sweden despite the beautiful Scandinavian women because of the gorgeous Scandinavian men.

I hope you understand I made the women comment, one b/c its true Smiley , and to lighten the mood on the topic a bit.

With such strong views on this Mig, are you gay?
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2003, 11:41:53 AM »
« Edited: March 05, 2005, 05:45:25 PM by Peter Bell »

fair enough.
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jravnsbo
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Posts: 1,888


« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2004, 03:02:33 PM »
« Edited: March 05, 2005, 05:52:37 PM by Peter Bell »

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Don't get the Thailand comment, please explain.

Been to Denmark only and a lot of continental Europe and England.  Very interesting place with lots of beautful women. Smiley
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