¡Adelante, Compañeros! La marcha al libertarismo va avanzando
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  ¡Adelante, Compañeros! La marcha al libertarismo va avanzando
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Author Topic: ¡Adelante, Compañeros! La marcha al libertarismo va avanzando  (Read 6352 times)
Tetro Kornbluth
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« on: October 15, 2012, 10:46:14 AM »

Those that have better Spanish skills than I can correct the title if I made a mistake, I wish to say "The march of libertarianism goes onwards"

NOTE: This post is LONG but if you wish to engorge yourself about the nature of 'libertarianism', I recommend you read it.

Yesterday, while I was perusing the internet I came across an interesting blog post on Robin Corey's blog which you can read here. Now, I'm not the biggest admirer of Robin Corey but the subject did catch my eye and reminded me that I had been long intending to return and renew a classical thread of mine.

For those that have read some of Corey's blog post, I will now offer a little recap. It concerns the development of 'charter cities' led by a coterie of US based libertarian financiers and intellectuals including many of the usual figures such as Peter Thiel and even Milton Friedman's grandson. What is a charter city, you may ask, well let's first listen to the creator of the idea, the economist Paul Romer preaching the world at a *sigh* TED Conference last year when the idea was still somewhat in embyro:

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_romer_the_world_s_first_charter_city.html

Since then things have progressed somewhat as The Guardianlays it out clearly:

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Never before have I considered that J.G. Ballard was actually a writer of on-the-spot realistic journalism from the future until I read that.

Anyway, as you can imagine in a fairly densely populated country like Honduras already with its own population centres and dispersed agricultural communities there might be some difficulty in finding appropriate locations for such places. So, would anyone be willing to guess where exactly they plan to build this city or more precisely, over whose land? Those even remotely familiar with Central American politics** will get no places for guessing... This is from Global Voices, read:

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I suppose we are wondering why removing the indigenous from their land (perhaps with Death squads?) and using it to build massive edifices that will suit the whims of rich white people from other more salubrious parts of the world can be considered a novel investment in strategy in Honduras. Though I suppose those elements in Honduras close to the project are currently trained in business schools to express in perfect American English accents how the cities will release the 'entreprenuerial' aspects of their people leading to greater 'innovation' in their economy. Look out for this at the next TED conference.

Before we leave it, on the murder of Carbera, this is what HRW says:

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Before any criticizes me now, I will add that I don't know whether or not all this violence has anything to do with the ciudades modelos (as they known in Spanish) plan. But it is hardly a non-factor as global research explains:

(continues below)
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2012, 10:47:45 AM »

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Do read the rest of that article, it gives an interesting case of libertarians trying to build a similar model city in Madgascar a few years back.

But what of Democracy you might ask? Surely the champions of freedom as they like to designate themselves would be opposed to such bullying and autocratic tactics. Well, let's see what Patri Friedman - that is, Milton's aforementioned grandson and supporter of the Charter cities project - had to say on this project on his very own CATO institute blog. I give you some sample quotes but it would be good to read the whole thing, it is sooo revealing:

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So democracy is not the answer then? Well, what about Peter Thiel another investor and supporter of the charter city concept according to him, in yet another CATO institute blog "Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible". So that clears that up then, democracy is not libertarian freedom. Better go to a tax haven created for the super rich in a poor, backward country to fully experience it.



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* - One of the more interesting things about this is the strange relationship that libertarianism has with Central America. Guatemala, of all places, has the world's only 'libertarian university' (read more about this cultish place here while Costa Rica is the only place in the world where a self-described libertarian party is one of the major political parties of the country. Now obviously there is a lot of context (ie. US influence) required here to understand this, most of which I don't know but it is rather fascinating, especially once you consider CA's demographics...
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Simfan34
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2012, 01:05:45 PM »

What sort of political system do they propose in democracy's stead?
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shua
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2012, 03:58:05 PM »

If they are allowing sale of those properties without first securing the legal rights of the individual farmers, that goes completely against de Soto's ideas. 
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SPC
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2012, 04:30:19 PM »

If they are allowing sale of those properties without first securing the legal rights of the individual farmers, that goes completely against de Soto's ideas. 
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Velasco
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2012, 07:44:06 PM »

I don't know why I did the association but when I started reading about the Charter Towns it came to my mind the projected Gambling City named Eurovegas that Sheldon Adelson is gonna build near Madrid. Adelson is a magnate, chief and executive officer of Las Vegas Sands Corparation and a great contributor to the Romney's campaign. He owns the Sands Hotel and Casino complex in las Vegas and gambling complexes in Macau and Singapore, among others. It seems that his possesions in Asia have their own legal system, or at least the legislation is adapted to the particular necessities of the complexes. Unions are forbidden in Adelson's enterprises.

As for Garifonas it's a curious coincidence, last weekend I watched in TV something about them. They live in the Caribbean coast, around the city of Livingstone and in small communities scattered in the environs and nearby islands. Most of them are poor and many live on fishing. But there weren't mentions to this project. It seems that they are settled in the area since 1804, years before of the Central American independency. Reading the articles linked above is fascinating but, above all, is terrifying. Well, the people in Honduras, Guatemala or El Salvador is well served of abuses and frightening experiences.

The only thing that I find a bit amusing is the fact that the Central America Libertarian movement has a Guevara. A certain Otto placed third in the 2010 Costa Rica Presidential but, who play the roles of Castro and El Che in this revolution?
 
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2012, 06:38:22 PM »

If they are allowing sale of those properties without first securing the legal rights of the individual farmers, that goes completely against de Soto's ideas. 

You speak as if what you say is particularly relevant...

I too was actually reminded of EuroVegas, as they are both truly awful ideas that only 'libertarians' could support.

Anyway, I'm posting now as it is time to talk about Honduras again - pretty depressing stuff really:
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/138188/dana-frank/honduras-gone-wrong?page=show
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shua
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« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2012, 12:33:35 AM »

If they are allowing sale of those properties without first securing the legal rights of the individual farmers, that goes completely against de Soto's ideas. 

You speak as if what you say is particularly relevant...

If Hernando de Soto's role or lack thereof is not relevant, why did you go to the effort of quoting the article on this point?
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 06:44:52 AM »

If they are allowing sale of those properties without first securing the legal rights of the individual farmers, that goes completely against de Soto's ideas. 

You speak as if what you say is particularly relevant...


I'm not really au fait with De Soto's ideas but I thought that statement was pretty marginal to the point of that article...
If Hernando de Soto's role or lack thereof is not relevant, why did you go to the effort of quoting the article on this point?
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shua
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2012, 09:02:52 PM »

I should have been clearer - by "they" I meant those implementing the Land Modernization Law.  The broader point, which extends to this charter cities movement, is that the article misunderstands the free market ideas it discusses. It does not follow that, for instance, giving up on democracy when it comes to trying to implement libertarian ideas means that a coup or removal of people off their land is okay - that's confusing democracy and rule of law. 
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2012, 09:43:46 PM »

I should have been clearer - by "they" I meant those implementing the Land Modernization Law.  The broader point, which extends to this charter cities movement, is that the article misunderstands the free market ideas it discusses. It does not follow that, for instance, giving up on democracy when it comes to trying to implement libertarian ideas means that a coup or removal of people off their land is okay - that's confusing democracy and rule of law. 

You do understand that there is a difference between theory and practice, correct? And that was just one article from a series of different website I linked to.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2013, 09:55:57 AM »

Update:

Back in October the Supreme court of Honduras shot down the proposal by rendering it unconstitutional which you think would have been the end of it, but alas, no
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2013, 10:10:03 AM »

Ugh.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2013, 04:35:43 PM »

This comes from the guy who was instated in a fake election after the rightful President was deposed in a coup, if I remember correctly? Wow.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2014, 11:25:44 AM »

Two years later, an update

It looks like they are going ahead although little building has been done yet, the last legal challlenges have been brushed aside... and if anything the situation looks more... ominous for them

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also more here

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The perspective of a mayor in a place near where one of the towns is proposed to be built (From The New Republic article)

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Vosem
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« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2014, 02:47:34 PM »

Those that have better Spanish skills than I can correct the title if I made a mistake, I wish to say "The march of libertarianism goes onwards"

La marcha de libertarismo va avante

What you have right now is "the march to libertarianism goes advancing"
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Edu
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« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2014, 07:42:53 PM »
« Edited: December 26, 2014, 07:57:05 PM by Edu »

"La marcha del libertarismo sigue adelante" should be the correct title in spanish.

"La marcha del libertarismo sigue avanzando" or "La marcha del libertarismo continua avanzando" are other similar phrases which have the same sentiment.

Sure, you could say that goes is literaly translated to va but it sounds a bit awkward in this phrase

Well, I just saw that you already use adelante in the phrase, so it would be better to use one of the other ones I wrote.
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