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  Tender's megathread on crime in Austria
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Author Topic: Tender's megathread on crime in Austria  (Read 47434 times)
Tender Branson
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« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2017, 04:50:42 am »

There was a parliamentary inquiry about "rapes committed by foreigners and asylum seekers", to which the Interior Minister replied:

https://www.parlament.gv.at/PAKT/VHG/XXV/AB/AB_09970/imfname_576696.pdf

In 2015, there were 826 rapes and 688 suspects, of which 250 were foreigners (36%).

39 were asylum seekers (5.7% of suspects)

In 2016 (Jan. to Sept.), there were 677 rapes and 594 suspects, of which 257 were foreigners (43%).

91 were asylum seekers (15.3% of suspects)

...

So, the number of foreign rape suspects, especially asylum seekers, increased significantly last year - despite only making up 1-2% of the population.

I assume the figures for Germany that you cited were from 2015, so get ready for a massive spike in asylum seeker rapes for 2016 there as well ...
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2017, 04:54:24 am »
« Edited: February 22, 2017, 05:03:57 am by 0% Approval Rating »

And also, you say that asylum seekers are responsible for 5% of all rapes in Germany, but they only make up 1-2% of the population. Which means they have a much higher rape-rate than Germans.

In Germany, it's slightly more than 2% actually. And the Federal Criminal Police didn't use asylum seekers alone, but also a couple of other groups such as illegals. And the precise ratio of asylum seekers comitting sex crimes was 4.6%.

And it doesn't change the fact that 100% of your posts about rape are dealing with the 5% of refugees, and 0% of your posts are dealing with the 95% of non-refugees. Wouldn't it be much fairer if only 5% of your "rape posts" were about rape committed by refugees? I certainly wouldn't complain then. But the way it is now, you get the impression that you don't actually care about rape, but about refugees.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2017, 05:03:55 am »

And also, you say that asylum seekers are responsible for 5% of all rapes in Germany, but they only make up 1-2% of the population. Which means they have a much higher rape-rate than Germans.

In Germany, it's slightly more than 2% actually. And the Federal Criminal Police didn't use asylum seekers alone, but also a couple of other groups such as illegals.

And it doesn't change the fact that 100% of your posts about rape are dealing with the 5% of refugees, and 0% of your posts are dealing with the 95% of non-refugees. Wouldn't it be much fairer if only 5% of your "rape posts" were about rape committed by refugees? I certainly wouldn't complain then. But the way it is now, you get the impression that you don't actually care about rape, but about refugees.

I certainly care more about the rape victims than most of the leftists with their constant euphemism towards the disgusting crime committed by "refugees".

BTW: Why should I regularly report rape crimes of Austrians or Germans, when in fact a disproportional amount of rapes are committed by non-Austrians or non-Germans ?

Yes, Austrians and Germans rape and this sucks - but we have to look at the share and here the statistics speak volumes: If a population group makes up 1-2% of the population and commits 15% of the rapes, there's a problem. Obviously, you will just continue to ignore that problem, as usual ...
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2017, 05:45:56 am »

I assume the figures for Germany that you cited were from 2015, so get ready for a massive spike in asylum seeker rapes for 2016 there as well ...

The Federal Criminal Police of Germany had also released prelimary numbers for 2016 and they didn't point to a "massive spike" here.



I certainly care more about the rape victims than most of the leftists with their constant euphemism towards the disgusting crime committed by "refugees".

BTW: Why should I regularly report rape crimes of Austrians or Germans, when in fact a disproportional amount of rapes are committed by non-Austrians or non-Germans ?

Yes, Austrians and Germans rape and this sucks - but we have to look at the share and here the statistics speak volumes: If a population group makes up 1-2% of the population and commits 15% of the rapes, there's a problem. Obviously, you will just continue to ignore that problem, as usual ...

So, you think you're identified a problem... but you haven't presented a solution really besides "don't let any refugees come here".

According to the preliminary numbers released for 2016, you can surmise that about 0.2% of all asylum seekers living in Germany have committed a sex crime last year. That's 2 out of 1000. So, is the conclusion that 100% of all refugees shouldn't be allowed in because 0.2% of them may commit a rape? That does seem overly excessive to me, to be frank. You go tell the 998 you're not willing to let in here that they're not welcome because the other two may (or may not) commit rape at one point. Let's see after how many you'll give up.



You wrote what you pisses off about the debate. Fine, I'll write you what me pisses off about the debate. The fact the my party, the Green Party, were often the first who introduced legislatio  n into the Bundestag banning rape within marriage, forced marriage or genital mutilation in Germany. They often did it years before the so-called conservatives did it. For instance, in 2006 the Greens first introduced a bill banning legislation genital mutilation. It didn't find a majority and hence it didn't get passed. They introduced another bill in 2011, and it didn't get passed. Genital mutilation was then finally banned in 2013 by CDU/CSU and FDP.

And then right-wingers come and accuse you for not doing anything about it, and that you're even supporting forced marriage, genital mutilation, and rape. Then, the same right-wingers go ahead and cut the public funding for battered women's shelters for migrant women. And do you know where battered women's shelters for migrant women go when they want to campaign for more funding? They're certainly not going to the AfD. They're not going to the CDU. They're going to the Greens. Because they know they get an actual solution here that helps.

All that right-wingers do is to point out all the evil things immigrants do. Because it's a cheap and easy way to get votes. But it doesn't solve any problems. It creates even more. It creates a climate where racism becomes acceptable. And in a climate where racism become acceptable, there's also an increase of racist letters and threat letters from racists to battered women's shelter for migrant women. Like it was told to me in the battered women's shelter for migrant women I visited last years.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2017, 07:34:03 am »

And here's another thing which pisses me off.

A frequent accusation I'm hearing particularly from the AfD crowd is "well, how many refugees have Green politicians accepted at their own homes then?" with the implication being that refugees are so terrible sub-human rapist barbarians that no one would, even Greens, would accept refugees at their homes and the Green support for Merkel's refugee policies is therefore hyporcritical. The truth is that I know a lot of Greens who have provided shelter for refugees at their own homes. Including gay couples. No problems there.

All of this isn't made public though. The reason is: If you make it public that you provide shelter for refugees, you are going to get hate mail and death threats.

So, some things have to be kept secret.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2017, 10:03:20 am »

BTW: Why should I regularly report rape crimes of Austrians or Germans, when in fact a disproportional amount of rapes are committed by non-Austrians or non-Germans ?

Yes, Austrians and Germans rape and this sucks - but we have to look at the share and here the statistics speak volumes: If a population group makes up 1-2% of the population and commits 15% of the rapes, there's a problem. Obviously, you will just continue to ignore that problem, as usual ...

I would say the problem is that rapes are being committed at all btw.

You seem to accept rapes committed by natives as normality, and only when this normality is disturbed are you interested in it as a "problem". I'd say every rape is a problem.
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Mopolis
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« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2017, 11:00:47 am »

Whataboutism in response to gang rape - not a good look!
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Epstein Didnít Kill Himself
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« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2017, 12:26:28 pm »

Europe's rape crisis is heating up. It's getting as frequent as our mass shootings are over here. There needs to be stricter punishment IMO. Ideally, my policy would be to deport the offenders entire family. I'm sure some of these Afghan refugee mothers would put their sons' balls in a vice if they had to go back there because of their children's deeply concerning behavior.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #58 on: February 22, 2017, 12:33:59 pm »

BTW: Why should I regularly report rape crimes of Austrians or Germans, when in fact a disproportional amount of rapes are committed by non-Austrians or non-Germans ?

Yes, Austrians and Germans rape and this sucks - but we have to look at the share and here the statistics speak volumes: If a population group makes up 1-2% of the population and commits 15% of the rapes, there's a problem. Obviously, you will just continue to ignore that problem, as usual ...

I would say the problem is that rapes are being committed at all btw.

You seem to accept rapes committed by natives as normality, and only when this normality is disturbed are you interested in it as a "problem". I'd say every rape is a problem.

     I would note that Tender's logic is basically the same as #BlackLivesMatter; a certain group is overrepresented in this social ill and we should deal with that. Your response is equivalent to #AllLivesMatter; that is, this social ill matters and should be addressed regardless. Philosophically I agree with your POV, but practically we can most efficiently deal with the problem of rape by targeting those factors that most strongly correlate with the problem of rape.
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АverroŽs 🦉
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« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2017, 01:02:33 pm »

I am not inclined to take Tenderís line regarding refugees with much sympathy, but the critical responses here have been less than compelling. Unless the numbers that he is citing are outright wrong, I donít understand how anyone can read about something like this without recognizing it as a problem in need of an answer.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2017, 01:04:05 pm »

all is true at the same time.

1) it is less reported if it's austrian on austrian rape.

2) there are statistically more rape cases including foreigners (as victims and predators)

3) and....there aren't many many cases, to my knowledge, involving syrians.
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« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2017, 06:33:21 pm »

Is it just me, or are people trying to normalise gang rape as something that just happens.

The gang rape in Sydney involved up to 12-15 muslim youths.

That is not normal.

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Siren
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« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2017, 06:33:31 pm »

If a White person brought this idea up to another White person, the other White person would freak out and report them. If a White person brought this up to 9 other White people, at least one of them would.

Seriously, how do 9 people agree to commit a gang rape? This kind of conspiracy is only possible because of the morally backwards, intellectually stunted culture these people come from.

Clearly you haven't heard about what happened in Berlin at the end of WW2. 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32529679

Anyway, obviously this is terrible but rape victims are a severely misunderstood group of people.  It's one of the most under reported crimes because of how humiliating it is, particularly because it usually happens among people you know very well and have to see over and over again each time you walk down the street or through a hallway at work or at school, reliving what happened each time.  It makes sense that reporting would be higher for people you don't know, especially people that police and society at large might be more willing to take your side against.  Because as you might have noticed, the burden to prove what happened is on the victim and a lot of times it's not easy to prove.  That's not to say these incidents are excusable or that they don't need to be addressed, but seriously, spare me the cultured white people BS.
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Beet
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« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2017, 06:35:09 pm »

Alt Righters love Milo and Roosh but hate Muslims for some reason.
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« Reply #64 on: February 22, 2017, 06:52:31 pm »

Europe's rape crisis is heating up. It's getting as frequent as our mass shootings are over here. There needs to be stricter punishment IMO. Ideally, my policy would be to deport the offenders entire family. I'm sure some of these Afghan refugee mothers would put their sons' balls in a vice if they had to go back there because of their children's deeply concerning behavior.

I suspect a contributing factor is that many young men come to a foreign land and do not have family with them to provide any sort of moral or social grounding.
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« Reply #65 on: February 22, 2017, 07:45:51 pm »

If a White person brought this idea up to another White person, the other White person would freak out and report them. If a White person brought this up to 9 other White people, at least one of them would.

Seriously, how do 9 people agree to commit a gang rape? This kind of conspiracy is only possible because of the morally backwards, intellectually stunted culture these people come from.

Clearly you haven't heard about what happened in Berlin at the end of WW2.

The fact that you're literally reaching back to the Battle of Berlin aftermath in 1945 is really telling.
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Intell
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« Reply #66 on: February 22, 2017, 07:53:22 pm »

There is a disproportionate problem with refugees and crime, that must be dealt with, and to deny that is foolish.

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Siren
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« Reply #67 on: February 22, 2017, 08:42:23 pm »
« Edited: February 22, 2017, 08:44:05 pm by Siren »

If a White person brought this idea up to another White person, the other White person would freak out and report them. If a White person brought this up to 9 other White people, at least one of them would.

Seriously, how do 9 people agree to commit a gang rape? This kind of conspiracy is only possible because of the morally backwards, intellectually stunted culture these people come from.

Clearly you haven't heard about what happened in Berlin at the end of WW2.

The fact that you're literally reaching back to the Battle of Berlin aftermath in 1945 is really telling.

It tells that I've read some history books I guess?
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АverroŽs 🦉
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« Reply #68 on: February 22, 2017, 09:26:20 pm »

Siren, I really dislike the implications that some posters are trying to draw from this, but reaching back to the social trauma of people at the epicenter of one the most destructive events in history for a comparison does not suggest to me that this is just something to be expected as a matter of the normal, everyday criminality that every society experiences.
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« Reply #69 on: February 22, 2017, 09:47:54 pm »

19 to girl gang raped by 5 "natives from Sevilla (Spain)" during last year's San FermŪn
http://www.abc.es/espana/abci-san-fermin-carcel-tres-horas-y-media-cronologia-violacion-201608181259_noticia.html

http://www.abc.es/espana/abci-victima-violacion-multiple-san-fermin-sometera-examen-psicologico-201608261335_noticia.html
They're these presumed rapist's and they all have Castizo names


13 y.o. girl gang raped and blackmailed by 'Ndragheta mafiosi (2013-15)
http://www.ansa.it/english/news/general_news/2016/09/02/eight-arrested-for-gang-rape-of-girl-13_76079f53-9f2b-48f8-87c9-3f6b69afc5af.html


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Intell
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« Reply #70 on: February 22, 2017, 09:51:00 pm »


That's not the point, the point there is a huge disproportionate problem with refugees commuting more rapes and crime in a country, and there  is a problem with immigrants from mainly muslim countires, with segregation and crime.
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∀lex
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« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2017, 09:57:36 pm »

I was responding to Xenophobe Morty and Co. who seem to claim that white people would never commit these crimes
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Siren
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« Reply #72 on: February 22, 2017, 10:34:04 pm »

Siren, I really dislike the implications that some posters are trying to draw from this, but reaching back to the social trauma of people at the epicenter of one the most destructive events in history for a comparison does not suggest to me that this is just something to be expected as a matter of the normal, everyday criminality that every society experiences.

That's a fair point.  I'm not really trying to say this kind of thing is normal, but I think there are some important lessons from it.  The stories from the German victims show the intense humiliation that people feel when they've been raped and how it makes many of them really unlikely to want to tell anyone.  They felt ashamed at what their country had done but also were afraid that nobody would believe them because they were untrustworthy or worse, being afraid that people would say they deserved it because they were Germans.  So when victims are afraid no one will believe them, they are less likely to report. 

It also shows that people are capable of truly barbaric things when they've gone through incredible hardship (yes, even white people!)  Refugees are coming from a very bad situation, so if they arrive in a new environment that's kind of unknown, and they remain poor or don't have a job, it's going to create some problems.  Just like when people try to point to inner city black crime rates, and try to say oh it's the black culture when it's actually the living conditions. 

It's understandable that people see crime statistics from refugees and immediately want to ban them all, but that means closing the door to people literally running from genocide.  I've been to refugee shelters here in New York and seen the smiling children, running around and playing just like normal kids, pointing to maps and showing you happily where they grew up until they smile and say "bye!" when it's time for them to go to their English class.  It might take some extra work to help them get going in society, but I'm prepared to do it.  They don't deserve to die.  I don't really know how European refugee shelters and policies are handling the situation, but my guess is that their solution is too bureaucratic and doesn't have enough understanding of the human condition.  They might need some extra help coming from the circumstances they do, but that doesn't mean they're bad people.  Anyone would be messed up coming from a situation like that. 

And that's not even counting all of the examples of refugees who have done great things like Nadia Nadim, an Afghan refugee that fled the Taliban when they murdered her father.  Now she plays on the Danish national soccer team and founded several clinics in Denmark to help hungry children, while studying at university to be a doctor.  If Denmark didn't take her in, she would probably just be a body in the ground somewhere.  It just goes to show what good people can do for society when given the chance.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2017, 11:14:15 pm »

Siren, I really dislike the implications that some posters are trying to draw from this, but reaching back to the social trauma of people at the epicenter of one the most destructive events in history for a comparison does not suggest to me that this is just something to be expected as a matter of the normal, everyday criminality that every society experiences.

That's a fair point.  I'm not really trying to say this kind of thing is normal, but I think there are some important lessons from it.  The stories from the German victims show the intense humiliation that people feel when they've been raped and how it makes many of them really unlikely to want to tell anyone.  They felt ashamed at what their country had done but also were afraid that nobody would believe them because they were untrustworthy or worse, being afraid that people would say they deserved it because they were Germans.  So when victims are afraid no one will believe them, they are less likely to report. 

It also shows that people are capable of truly barbaric things when they've gone through incredible hardship (yes, even white people!)  Refugees are coming from a very bad situation, so if they arrive in a new environment that's kind of unknown, and they remain poor or don't have a job, it's going to create some problems.  Just like when people try to point to inner city black crime rates, and try to say oh it's the black culture when it's actually the living conditions. 

It's understandable that people see crime statistics from refugees and immediately want to ban them all, but that means closing the door to people literally running from genocide.  I've been to refugee shelters here in New York and seen the smiling children, running around and playing just like normal kids, pointing to maps and showing you happily where they grew up until they smile and say "bye!" when it's time for them to go to their English class.  It might take some extra work to help them get going in society, but I'm prepared to do it.  They don't deserve to die.  I don't really know how European refugee shelters and policies are handling the situation, but my guess is that their solution is too bureaucratic and doesn't have enough understanding of the human condition.  They might need some extra help coming from the circumstances they do, but that doesn't mean they're bad people.  Anyone would be messed up coming from a situation like that. 

And that's not even counting all of the examples of refugees who have done great things like Nadia Nadim, an Afghan refugee that fled the Taliban when they murdered her father.  Now she plays on the Danish national soccer team and founded several clinics in Denmark to help hungry children, while studying at university to be a doctor.  If Denmark didn't take her in, she would probably just be a body in the ground somewhere.  It just goes to show what good people can do for society when given the chance.

Exactly. No one is denying that monstrous actions of these refugees, and what others have/might have done. We're just pushing back against the asinine implication that "REFUGEE BAD NATIVIST GOOD" that is the core of what Tender and others have said in this thread.

The majority of refugees are average, everyday people, and like natives of any given country, there are bad people and there are good people, and different extremes in between. We're pushing back against this absurd demonization of all refugees by Tender and co.

Again, no one is denying that what these refugees did is bad. No one has said that's fine. Punish them as the law demands, and make the law stricter and harsher if you must. But demonization of refugees as a whole is ridiculous.
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« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2017, 11:18:12 pm »



Exactly. No one is denying that monstrous actions of these refugees, and what others have/might have done. We're just pushing back against the asinine implication that "REFUGEE BAD NATIVIST GOOD" that is the core of what Tender and others have said in this thread.

The majority of refugees are average, everyday people, and like natives of any given country, there are bad people and there are good people, and different extremes in between. We're pushing back against this absurd demonization of all refugees by Tender and co.

Again, no one is denying that what these refugees did is bad. No one has said that's fine. Punish them as the law demands, and make the law stricter and harsher if you must. But demonization of refugees as a whole is ridiculous.
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