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  Tender's megathread on crime in Austria (search mode)
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Author Topic: Tender's megathread on crime in Austria  (Read 40476 times)
Ye Olde Europe
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« on: February 22, 2017, 04:22:22 am »

Almost all of the high-profile rape cases in recent years are committed by aslum seekers - allthough they are not even 2% of the overall population.

Last October, the Federal Criminal Police of Germany released numbers that more than 95% of all sex crimes in Germany are committed by non-asylum seekers ("Kriminalitt im Kontext von Zuwanderung - Bundeslagebild 2015" from October 18, page 14).

I can't imagine that Austria is radically different from Germany in that respect. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the ration is a bit lower in Austria, since they do have fewer refugees. Have you tried to ascertain whether Austrian police has released such numbers?

In any case, it certainly stands out that you only post about the 5% of rapes which are committed by refugees and never about the 95% of rapes which are committed by non-refugees.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2017, 04:54:24 am »
« Edited: February 22, 2017, 05:03:57 am by 0% Approval Rating »

And also, you say that asylum seekers are responsible for 5% of all rapes in Germany, but they only make up 1-2% of the population. Which means they have a much higher rape-rate than Germans.

In Germany, it's slightly more than 2% actually. And the Federal Criminal Police didn't use asylum seekers alone, but also a couple of other groups such as illegals. And the precise ratio of asylum seekers comitting sex crimes was 4.6%.

And it doesn't change the fact that 100% of your posts about rape are dealing with the 5% of refugees, and 0% of your posts are dealing with the 95% of non-refugees. Wouldn't it be much fairer if only 5% of your "rape posts" were about rape committed by refugees? I certainly wouldn't complain then. But the way it is now, you get the impression that you don't actually care about rape, but about refugees.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2017, 05:45:56 am »

I assume the figures for Germany that you cited were from 2015, so get ready for a massive spike in asylum seeker rapes for 2016 there as well ...

The Federal Criminal Police of Germany had also released prelimary numbers for 2016 and they didn't point to a "massive spike" here.



I certainly care more about the rape victims than most of the leftists with their constant euphemism towards the disgusting crime committed by "refugees".

BTW: Why should I regularly report rape crimes of Austrians or Germans, when in fact a disproportional amount of rapes are committed by non-Austrians or non-Germans ?

Yes, Austrians and Germans rape and this sucks - but we have to look at the share and here the statistics speak volumes: If a population group makes up 1-2% of the population and commits 15% of the rapes, there's a problem. Obviously, you will just continue to ignore that problem, as usual ...

So, you think you're identified a problem... but you haven't presented a solution really besides "don't let any refugees come here".

According to the preliminary numbers released for 2016, you can surmise that about 0.2% of all asylum seekers living in Germany have committed a sex crime last year. That's 2 out of 1000. So, is the conclusion that 100% of all refugees shouldn't be allowed in because 0.2% of them may commit a rape? That does seem overly excessive to me, to be frank. You go tell the 998 you're not willing to let in here that they're not welcome because the other two may (or may not) commit rape at one point. Let's see after how many you'll give up.



You wrote what you pisses off about the debate. Fine, I'll write you what me pisses off about the debate. The fact the my party, the Green Party, were often the first who introduced legislatio  n into the Bundestag banning rape within marriage, forced marriage or genital mutilation in Germany. They often did it years before the so-called conservatives did it. For instance, in 2006 the Greens first introduced a bill banning legislation genital mutilation. It didn't find a majority and hence it didn't get passed. They introduced another bill in 2011, and it didn't get passed. Genital mutilation was then finally banned in 2013 by CDU/CSU and FDP.

And then right-wingers come and accuse you for not doing anything about it, and that you're even supporting forced marriage, genital mutilation, and rape. Then, the same right-wingers go ahead and cut the public funding for battered women's shelters for migrant women. And do you know where battered women's shelters for migrant women go when they want to campaign for more funding? They're certainly not going to the AfD. They're not going to the CDU. They're going to the Greens. Because they know they get an actual solution here that helps.

All that right-wingers do is to point out all the evil things immigrants do. Because it's a cheap and easy way to get votes. But it doesn't solve any problems. It creates even more. It creates a climate where racism becomes acceptable. And in a climate where racism become acceptable, there's also an increase of racist letters and threat letters from racists to battered women's shelter for migrant women. Like it was told to me in the battered women's shelter for migrant women I visited last years.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2017, 07:34:03 am »

And here's another thing which pisses me off.

A frequent accusation I'm hearing particularly from the AfD crowd is "well, how many refugees have Green politicians accepted at their own homes then?" with the implication being that refugees are so terrible sub-human rapist barbarians that no one would, even Greens, would accept refugees at their homes and the Green support for Merkel's refugee policies is therefore hyporcritical. The truth is that I know a lot of Greens who have provided shelter for refugees at their own homes. Including gay couples. No problems there.

All of this isn't made public though. The reason is: If you make it public that you provide shelter for refugees, you are going to get hate mail and death threats.

So, some things have to be kept secret.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2017, 10:03:20 am »

BTW: Why should I regularly report rape crimes of Austrians or Germans, when in fact a disproportional amount of rapes are committed by non-Austrians or non-Germans ?

Yes, Austrians and Germans rape and this sucks - but we have to look at the share and here the statistics speak volumes: If a population group makes up 1-2% of the population and commits 15% of the rapes, there's a problem. Obviously, you will just continue to ignore that problem, as usual ...

I would say the problem is that rapes are being committed at all btw.

You seem to accept rapes committed by natives as normality, and only when this normality is disturbed are you interested in it as a "problem". I'd say every rape is a problem.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2017, 02:47:09 pm »

I wonder if this will start the First Anglo-Boar war.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2017, 10:58:25 am »

Let thousands of perfectly innocent people die and suffer in their war-torn countries to make sure one in a thousand, who might be a rapist, won't get it. Collective responsibility rules.

Tender, what is your solution?

I have posted about this for the past 2 years !

In short again: These masses of people have no right whatsoever to pick and choose the country that in their opinion should take them up as refugees. The UN refugee document clearly says that people who flee can seek refuge in their neighbouring countries, but not pick and choose where to go. Austria, Germany, Sweden are not the neighbouring countries of Syria and Iraq and - for the next decades to come - Africa.

Well, the majority of Syrian war refugess are in fact still located in Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan. For instance, it is estimated that 25-30% of the total population of Lebanon currently consist of refugees from the Syrian Civil War.... which certainly puts a lot of strain on a country with the per capita GDP of Mexico. (For comparison: Refugees make up less than 2% of Germany's population.)
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2017, 12:18:41 pm »

If we're now applying the concept of "collective responsibility" of entire peoples or groups of people we must apply it thorougly and without exception. Everything else would ammount to hypocrisy. So, let's talk about the Austrians then.


According to this article, Austria - along with Italy - was the only country in the world who has conducted arms exports to Syria in the period between 2005 and 2009:
http://www.tt.com/home/3602340-91/amnesty-kritisiert-%C3%B6sterreichische-waffenexporte.csp

Thus it is probably not surprising that Austrian-manufactured weapons from companies like Steyr, Glock, and others are reportedly very common and popular among both Syrian rebels and ISIS fighters:
https://kurier.at/politik/inland/oesterreichische-waffen-bei-is-offenbar-beliebt/165.242.271
https://www.profil.at/ausland/syrien-im-kriegsgebiet-oesterreichische-waffen-im-einsatz-5585056

There's apparently also some spillover to the neighbouring Iraq where documented war crimes have been committed with Austrian-manufactured weapons:
https://kurier.at/politik/ausland/amnesty-international-bericht-irak-milizen-begehen-kriegsverbrechen-mit-oesterreichischen-waffen/239.294.860

Austria is of course also exporting weapons to other countries in the region such as Saudia Arabia, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/oesterreich-waffenexport-an-die-vereinigten-arabischen-emirate-a-1080555.html
http://derstandard.at/2000029272616/Wie-viele-Waffen-Oesterreich-nach-Saudi-Arabien-lieferte

Austrian weapons which were sold to the UAE where then put to use in 2015 in the Yemeni Civil War:
http://diepresse.com/home/ausland/aussenpolitik/4927976/Oesterreichische-Waffen-fuer-Buergerkrieg-im-Jemen


So, what has Tender, as a Austrian, done so far to prevent this or take responsiblity for this?


[Since I'm aware that Germany as a major weapons manufcaturing and exporting country is at best only marginally less guilty then Austria (well, at least we didn't seem to sell arms to Syria on the eve of their civil war), let me assure you that I tried to pay the bill by donating to refugee relief, both in Germany and in the Levant. In 2013, I also happened to volunteer for the re-election campaign of arguably one of the most outspoken opponent of arms exports in this country. I don't mean to brag about this... it's just can't stand "desk activists" who do nothing but complain about the state of the world and their country (and at worst, spew racist hatred on the Internet), but don't actually do anything meaningful or worthwhile about it.]
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2017, 06:07:44 am »

Another year is over and Vienna had 17 murders this year (a rate of 0.9/100.000 people).

Compared with Philly (315 murders so far), the rate is 20/100.000.

Those new Syrian refugees must be busy not murdering each other.

Once again, you are misinterpreting these numbers:

We have imported additional crimes by allowing this uncontrolled mass immigration to happen.

Crimes that would have otherwise not happened. Many young Austrian/German/Swedish etc. women would be unraped now and many people would not be dead now or beaten up.

Apart from Donald Trump's latest "let's mock the climate change" tweet, this is literally the dumbest thing I had to read all week. I feel like Tender owes me money as compensation for having to endure reading this post.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2017, 07:21:36 am »

Another year is over and Vienna had 17 murders this year (a rate of 0.9/100.000 people).

Compared with Philly (315 murders so far), the rate is 20/100.000.

Those new Syrian refugees must be busy not murdering each other.

Once again, you are misinterpreting these numbers:

We have imported additional crimes by allowing this uncontrolled mass immigration to happen.

Crimes that would have otherwise not happened. Many young Austrian/German/Swedish etc. women would be unraped now and many people would not be dead now or beaten up.

Apart from Donald Trump's latest "let's mock the climate change" tweet, this is literally the dumbest thing I had to read all week. I feel like Tender owes me money as compensation for having to endure reading this post.

Trump's tweet was in fact dumb, as he cannot differentiate between "weather" and "climate".

My post on the other hand is the plain truth (and even more so because you cannot bring up an argument against it). The naive, extremist left is basically bankrupt when you bring up common-sense arguments like mine above.

There's something missing from that post and that's my compensation.

You need to do better than that.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2017, 09:00:19 am »

Another year is over and Vienna had 17 murders this year (a rate of 0.9/100.000 people).

Compared with Philly (315 murders so far), the rate is 20/100.000.

Those new Syrian refugees must be busy not murdering each other.

Once again, you are misinterpreting these numbers:

We have imported additional crimes by allowing this uncontrolled mass immigration to happen.

Crimes that would have otherwise not happened. Many young Austrian/German/Swedish etc. women would be unraped now and many people would not be dead now or beaten up.

Apart from Donald Trump's latest "let's mock the climate change" tweet, this is literally the dumbest thing I had to read all week. I feel like Tender owes me money as compensation for having to endure reading this post.

Why is that dumb? Crime in any society increases with a higher share of young males, if those young males come from violent societies and disproportionally have been through traumatic events this will significantly increase the effect.

Because migrants commit crimes against non-migrants. Non-migrants commit crimes against migrants. Migrants commit crimes against other migrants. And non-migrants commit crimes against other non-migrants. The idea that you can calculate some kind of balance sheet where you put the pure "migrant perpetrator"/"non-migrant victim" ratio against the pure "non-migrant perpetrator"/"migrant victim" ratio while completely deducting the migrant-against-migrant crimes and non-migrant-against-non-migrant crimes so in the end you have a pure net balance which shows which group has "scored" higher against the other group is simply preposterous and also intellectually offensive. It also happens to be racist thinking, because among other things it inevitably places higher value on a non-migrant victim of a crime than a migrant victim.

Also... migrants who have comitted a crime in Austria may have comitted the same crime had they been someplace else. Or maybe they wouldn't have, since crimes often depend on the exact circumstances of where, when, and why. Maybe a migrant who's now in Austria and has never committed a crime, would have a committed a crime if he had ended up in Germany instead. And if we follow that thinking further, a migrant who has committed a crime in Vienna now may have never committed that crime had he been in Salzburg instead. And a crime that was committed by a Austrian in, let's say, South Africa, may or may not have committed as well had he stayed in Austria.

So, what's the point of all this?

Also, the phrase "many young  women would be unraped now" makes my brain hurt.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2019, 03:26:01 pm »

About 70-90% of murder victims are women, which is abnormally high in an international context.

More like 58.5%. That is during the first eleven months of 2018, according to the Austrian Ministry of Interior:


https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article187072758/Vier-Opfer-in-zwei-Wochen-Die-toten-Frauen-von-Oesterreich.html

https://www.wienerzeitung.at/nachrichten/wien/stadtleben/1013167_Immer-mehr-Frauen-als-Mordopfer.html
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2019, 05:16:14 am »

Just discovered this thread, and oh my......

Tender is even more off his nut than I thought. Which is saying a lot.

It comes across as a close-minded obsession which made me wonder about its psychological causes more than anything else tbh.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2019, 08:03:52 am »

He's posting about crime in Austria, and if the thread title is any indication, he's not being coy about it.  I understand the details might be a little embarassing to some political stripes, but that's ok, those people have a million things to be offended by (aren't the sheep still focused on a smirk and a hat?), this is just a blip.  Just drop by every few months to remind us that you're better and forget about it the rest of the time.  You'll need your energy for the next recrational outrage anyway.  I heard a black lesbian in a MAGA hat just got harassed inline at a CVS by a white lady while a bunch of Mountain Jews ran by eating bok choy and screaming about the gold standard.

Ignoring the impertinent polemics, insults, and general rudeness for this post for a minute, it seems to me that Tender gets carried away way too much in his "un-coyness".

Aside from the fact that in his single-mindedness he's become apparently almost incapable to care about any other problems in the world (poverty? unemplyoment? environment? climate change? education? corruption? international crises? crime committed by non-Muslims? right-wing extremism? ), his view on facts the also seems to have started to get a bit distorted. Obvious example from the recent past would be his repeated claim in this thread that "90% of all murder victims in Austria are women", while in fact that number continues to lie between 55% and 60% (which means that more women than men are killed which is indeed a problem, but it's far from 90% which by the way would probably be a mathematical impossibilty).

Another thing that tends to annoy me about Tender is a certain discrepancy when it comes to his view on women. I seem to a remember a post by him from a year ago or so which in my eyes  bordered very closely on sexual harrassment towards Virginia. Another post that comes to mind was recently from this thread were Tender commented about a murdered women with words like "too bad, she was hot" (if she had been ugly, her murder would have been less bad?). This may have been some of the worst, but not the only examples were he came across as a bit... off. And that doesn't really seem to fit with his supposed concern for the well-being of Austrian women either. So I did wonder what's exactly going on in his head for a while. I hope it isn't a case of "damn, I'm unable to get a hot woman into my bed myself, while those stupid Muslims just rape them!". In any case, I was never able to believe that Tender's concern was fully... authentic.

As for myself... I admit that I tend to be easily triggered by topics like this. Let me explain where this comes from. I grew up in the 1990s in the East German state of Saxony-Anhalt. It certainly isn't the most political correct place on Earth. That starts with my own father who's the kind of guy who to this day comments "here comes the Balkan mafia" when he sees a couple of Southern European looking man walking on the streets. But that's just - as you put it - a blip.

For instance, in my high school class was a group of boys who to put it bluntly were very much into racism. On one school trip, they convinced the driver of our bus to play some of their right-wing extremist music on the loudspeakers of the bus. The lyrics of one song was something along the lines of "Stab the Turk into his belly 20, 30, 40 times..." I remember that the bus driver happened to enjoy these songs very much. What I don't recall is an intervention by the accompanying teachers or any other noticable repercussions from or debate about that or similar incidents. Unfortunately, around the same time I happened to be frequent victim of bullying attacks from the same groups of boys. The worst incident I'm able to remember in that regard is to be spat upon by them for their entertainment. And going by some Facebook profiles I've seen in recent years many of these classmates seem to have grown into argent AfD voters nowadays. And I certainly wouldn't rule out that things got blended a bit in mind so that I started equating saying negative things about immigrants with being bullied or something.

Several depressions and a psychotherapy later the European refugee crisis of 2015 happened and I was working at a job where I quickly learned that refugee crisis must have been a welcome pretext for many people to finally act like the assholes they always wanted to be. Suddenly I found myself filing complaints with the police or being subpoenad as a court witness, mostly due to death threats we received. People started to describe in detail how they wanted to poke out the eyes and cut off the tongue and rape people who supported more liberal immigrations policies. Or that they intended to buy a Kalashnikov for the same reason. And this went on on almost a daily basis for more than a year. Fair to say that this experience changed me. I seem to recall that 10 or more years ago I tried to put a lot in emphasis on being the reasonable, moderate, consensus-oriented guy. It was sometime during 2016 that I simply stopped to care about such things. Now I often simply wanted to see the world burn.

As for why I recently returned to this forum.... to tell you the truth I was on sick leave until last week for worsening depression and insomnia and therefore I had not much to do at home. I'm on antidepressents again now (the last time was 2015-2017) so things are starting to get a bit better right now.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2019, 12:15:14 pm »

I played soccer in Berlin-Neuklln this afternoon, with a Nigerian man and a German woman among others. The Nigerian didn't rape the woman, but he won the match. Afterwards I had spinach cake in some hipster coffee shop and it did in fact taste a bit like spinach.
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