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Author Topic: Spanish elections and politics  (Read 271760 times)
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Antonio V
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« Reply #1150 on: October 22, 2016, 07:24:12 pm »

talking of animal rights, the Catalan bullfighting ban has been overturned Sad

Ugh. On what basis?
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aross
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« Reply #1151 on: October 22, 2016, 07:40:29 pm »
« Edited: October 22, 2016, 10:38:45 pm by aross »

Quote from:  link=topic=205125.msg5334833#msg5334833 date=1477178350
talking of animal rights, the Catalan bullfighting ban has been overturned Sad

Ugh. On what basis?
Because their statute of autonomy requires them to 'preserve cultural heritage', making the law ultra vires. Seriously. Also Catalans smell.
The case was, of course, brought by the PPC.
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jaichind
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« Reply #1152 on: October 22, 2016, 08:50:27 pm »

Spanish Socialists prepare to end political logjam

https://www.ft.com/content/0a5c2522-96ba-11e6-a1dc-bdf38d484582

"Barring a late surprise,the committee is expected to instruct the party’s members of parliament to abstain in a crucial vote on Mariano Rajoy’s candidacy for a second term as prime minister. That would be enough to secure another mandate for the veteran centre-right leader and draw a line under Spain’s political deadlock."

"In a clear sign that cohesion is breaking down, the Catalan branch of the party has made clear it will vote against Mr Rajoy no matter what the federal committee decides on Sunday. The powerful Andalusian branch, meanwhile, announced this week that it wants Socialist deputies to abstain and let Mr Rajoy form a government."

I think the pressure on PSOE to abstain in a vote for a PP government would be quite large.  Over time that is the most likely outcome.

Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.  Of course we will see what takes place tomorrow.  One way or another PSOE will be internally split pretty badly
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Secret Cavern Survivor
Antonio V
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« Reply #1153 on: October 22, 2016, 09:37:57 pm »

talking of animal rights, the Catalan bullfighting ban has been overturned Sad

Ugh. On what basis?
Because their statute of autonomy requires them to 'preserve cultural heritage'. Seriously. Also Catalans smell.
The case was, of course, brought by the PPC.

Oh wow. What a load of crap.
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jaichind
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« Reply #1154 on: October 23, 2016, 08:19:03 am »

Socialists give go-ahead to Spanish minority government
Madrid (DPA) -- Spain is set to form a government after months of negotiations and two inconclusive elections after the country's Socialists say they will not oppose a minority government headed by the ruling centre-right People's Party.

Rajoy will now get another term as prime minister.
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Secret Cavern Survivor
Antonio V
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« Reply #1155 on: October 23, 2016, 12:54:22 pm »

RIP PSOE.

All hail Flawless, Beautiful Pablo Purple heart.
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Velasco
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« Reply #1156 on: October 23, 2016, 02:16:48 pm »

RIP PSOE.

All hail Flawless, Beautiful Pablo Purple heart.

Sad
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DavidB.
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« Reply #1157 on: October 23, 2016, 02:49:43 pm »

talking of animal rights, the Catalan bullfighting ban has been overturned Sad
Ugh. On what basis?
It's a fundamental source of happiness to the Catalans.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
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Hugo Award nominee
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« Reply #1158 on: October 23, 2016, 08:36:06 pm »

RIP SPAIN, 1516-2016, FF
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ag
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« Reply #1159 on: October 23, 2016, 09:06:52 pm »

Idiots. Socialists will have hard time ever governing the rump Spain without Catalonia.
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« Reply #1160 on: October 23, 2016, 10:07:09 pm »

Did psoe ... Get anything in the deal?
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Velasco
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« Reply #1161 on: October 24, 2016, 04:37:54 am »

Did psoe ... Get anything in the deal?

There was no deal. The PSOE's Federal Commission just agreed to abstain "for the good of the country" and that is all.
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Velasco
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« Reply #1162 on: October 24, 2016, 04:44:28 am »

El País: "Spain’s Socialists will allow PP to form minority government.
Acting Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy will return to office in early November"

http://elpais.com/elpais/2016/10/24/inenglish/1477292590_216340.html

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After a 10-month political impasse, Spain looks set to have a government by early November. The Socialist Party’s (PSOE) decision on Sunday to lift a veto that has blocked the Popular Party (PP) in Congress means that Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy will return to office at the head of a minority administration.

Rajoy will rule without the support of any of Spain’s three other main parties, with just 137 deputies out of 350. He will be forced to negotiate every step of the new legislature, seeking support from the emerging center-right Ciudadanos grouping, as well as other groups.

All that is required now is a meeting between Rajoy and King Felipe and then two rounds of voting in Congress at which the Socialist Party will most likely abstain, allowing Rajoy to form a minority government toward the end of next week.

If the Socialists had not agreed to abstain at the upcoming investiture vote, the country would have had to return to the polls for a record third time in a year. Javier Fernández, who is in charge of the PSOE until it elects a new leader, has described the party’s position as “the lesser of two evils.”

The Socialist Party’s decision to lift its veto came after a special meeting held in Madrid on Sunday, with 139 regional leaders voting to allow Rajoy to form a government, and 96 opposing the move. The question has divided the party, with its former leader, Pedro Sánchez insisting for the last 10 months that he had widespread support among the grass roots for his refusal to allow Rajoy back into office. He stood down on August 31.

In the first round of voting in Congress next week, Rajoy will likely garner 170 votes: the PP’s, along with those of Ciudadanos and the Canaries Coalition. A second vote will take place two days later, on Saturday or Sunday. The Socialists will abstain, thus opening the door to Rajoy to return to office.
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Lumine
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« Reply #1163 on: October 24, 2016, 06:58:02 am »

Did psoe ... Get anything in the deal?

It's not like PSOE had a lot of leverage left. The alternative was to have a third election on December, which they would have to contest with no Prime Ministerial candidate, with a large polling deficit and projected results that would have seen not only Podemos as the second largest party, but Rajoy inching towards the 150-155 seats and able to hold a majority government with C's as PSOE would lose quite a few seats.

One can wonder on the long-term damage this will cause to PSOE, but in the short term, I can see why they prefer a minority Rajoy Government with them still having a large bloc of deputies rather than a leap into what they think would be electoral disaster in December.
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jaichind
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« Reply #1164 on: October 24, 2016, 07:04:35 am »

I suspect now with  Rajoy forming the government the situation will not bt stable and we will be headed toward a mid-term election most likely toward the end of 2017 where the vote will most likely polarize around PP and Podemos.
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aross
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« Reply #1165 on: October 24, 2016, 07:30:16 am »

How many PSOE deputies do you expect to vote No?
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« Reply #1166 on: October 24, 2016, 08:25:05 am »

Did psoe ... Get anything in the deal?

It's not like PSOE had a lot of leverage left. The alternative was to have a third election on December, which they would have to contest with no Prime Ministerial candidate, with a large polling deficit and projected results that would have seen not only Podemos as the second largest party, but Rajoy inching towards the 150-155 seats and able to hold a majority government with C's as PSOE would lose quite a few seats.

One can wonder on the long-term damage this will cause to PSOE, but in the short term, I can see why they prefer a minority Rajoy Government with them still having a large bloc of deputies rather than a leap into what they think would be electoral disaster in December.

A third election would have been a complete disaster for the whole Left, because of political disenchantment. There is internal strife in Podemos too. Anyway it's much worse for the PSOE. The incredibly inept way in which Felipe González -and the 'Old Senate'- in alliance with Susana Díaz -and the regional leaders called 'the barons'- have conducted the coup against Pedro Sánchez -who had far more misses than hits as party leader- in order to force the abstention -allowing the most corrupt party in Western Europe to stay in government- is going to cause a serious damage in the already weak credibility of the party. Furthermore, the coward attitude of the leaders of the 'rebellion' is contributing to deepen the hole. The silence of people like Susana Díaz, who has no courage to stand up, speak and give arguments in favour of abstention, is very eloquent.
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« Reply #1167 on: October 24, 2016, 08:56:00 am »

so, err, who is going to be PSOE's leader now?
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Lumine
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« Reply #1168 on: October 24, 2016, 09:14:07 am »

Did psoe ... Get anything in the deal?

It's not like PSOE had a lot of leverage left. The alternative was to have a third election on December, which they would have to contest with no Prime Ministerial candidate, with a large polling deficit and projected results that would have seen not only Podemos as the second largest party, but Rajoy inching towards the 150-155 seats and able to hold a majority government with C's as PSOE would lose quite a few seats.

One can wonder on the long-term damage this will cause to PSOE, but in the short term, I can see why they prefer a minority Rajoy Government with them still having a large bloc of deputies rather than a leap into what they think would be electoral disaster in December.

A third election would have been a complete disaster for the whole Left, because of political disenchantment. There is internal strife in Podemos too. Anyway it's much worse for the PSOE. The incredibly inept way in which Felipe González -and the 'Old Senate'- in alliance with Susana Díaz -and the regional leaders called 'the barons'- have conducted the coup against Pedro Sánchez -who had far more misses than hits as party leader- in order to force the abstention -allowing the most corrupt party in Western Europe to stay in government- is going to cause a serious damage in the already weak credibility of the party. Furthermore, the coward attitude of the leaders of the 'rebellion' is contributing to deepen the hole. The silence of people like Susana Díaz, who has no courage to stand up, speak and give arguments in favour of abstention, is very eloquent.

I wonder, do you think Rajoy is lucky or just unnaturally skilled at surviving? I mean, at several points between December 2015 and June 2016 I was sure he was finished, and despite everything that's happened he's about to be Prime Minister again with the complicity of the socialists, who seem to be committing further and further electoral suicide to no end.
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Velasco
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« Reply #1169 on: October 24, 2016, 10:07:39 am »

I wonder, do you think Rajoy is lucky or just unnaturally skilled at surviving? I mean, at several points between December 2015 and June 2016 I was sure he was finished, and despite everything that's happened he's about to be Prime Minister again with the complicity of the socialists, who seem to be committing further and further electoral suicide to no end.

I think the survival of Rajoy is due in large measure to his resilience, which is the main virtue of that terrible man. "Resistir es vencer". Of course nobody can survive in politics without a good dose of luck.

I just read this analysis by Enric Juliana. It's a good summary of events in the last 300 days. If you have reading comprehension in Spanish and interest to comprehend the situation, you should take a look.

http://www.caffereggio.net/2016/10/23/trescientos-dias-en-la-niebla-de-enric-juliana-en-la-vanguardia/

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Lumine
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« Reply #1170 on: October 24, 2016, 10:16:04 am »

I wonder, do you think Rajoy is lucky or just unnaturally skilled at surviving? I mean, at several points between December 2015 and June 2016 I was sure he was finished, and despite everything that's happened he's about to be Prime Minister again with the complicity of the socialists, who seem to be committing further and further electoral suicide to no end.

I think the survival of Rajoy is due in large measure to his resilience, which is the main virtue of that terrible man. "Resistir es vencer". Of course nobody can survive in politics without a good dose of luck.

I just read this analysis by Enric Juliana. It's a good summary of events in the last 300 days. If you have reading comprehension in Spanish and interest to comprehend the situation, you should take a look.

http://www.caffereggio.net/2016/10/23/trescientos-dias-en-la-niebla-de-enric-juliana-en-la-vanguardia/

Oh, certainly, I've taken quite an interesting in reading about Spain this year. My native language too, so even better!

I do wonder when exactly will Rajoy's leadership of the PP end. Surely he can't go further than this term, right?
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Velasco
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« Reply #1171 on: October 24, 2016, 12:42:17 pm »

How many PSOE deputies do you expect to vote No?

By the moment 13 MPs have said they will vote No, including the 7 MPs from Catalonia and the 2 from the Balearic Islands. Also Margarita Robles (a former secretary of Justice who ran second in Madrid behind Sánchez) and Odón Elorza (a former mayor of San Sebastián). Pedro Sánchez is still a member of the parliament: maybe he could resign before the vote.
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« Reply #1172 on: October 24, 2016, 12:59:57 pm »

Spain was doing so well without no government. Just kidding. Wink

Finally, the PSOE gain some good sense. Going to a third election would be suicide.
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Velasco
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« Reply #1173 on: October 24, 2016, 01:38:11 pm »

I do wonder when exactly will Rajoy's leadership of the PP end. Surely he can't go further than this term, right?

With a person as hermetic as Rajoy you can never be sure, but I think his original plan was to be at the head just two terms. Also, the fact that he survives cannot hide that the Popular Party is in need of a comprehensive refurbishment (and not in the style of the  refurbishment of the Génova Street HQs, funded with black money). Maybe Rajoy could try to place a successor in this upcoming legislature, who knows.

Spain was doing so well without no government. Just kidding. Wink

Finally, the PSOE gain some good sense. Going to a third election would be suicide.

Spain was fine. No joke. The hard times are going to begin just now, with the harsh budget cuts demanded by the European Commission. The PP government -otherwise a champion of austerity- failed in the fulfillment of deficit targets, because 2015 was an election year and the government approved certain tax reductions.

I thought that suicide and good sense were antithetical, but it's just me Wink
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Mike88
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« Reply #1174 on: October 24, 2016, 02:07:39 pm »

I do wonder when exactly will Rajoy's leadership of the PP end. Surely he can't go further than this term, right?

With a person as hermetic as Rajoy you can never be sure, but I think his original plan was to be at the head just two terms. Also, the fact that he survives cannot hide that the Popular Party is in need of a comprehensive refurbishment (and not in the style of the  refurbishment of the Génova Street HQs, funded with black money). Maybe Rajoy could try to place a successor in this upcoming legislature, who knows.

Spain was doing so well without no government. Just kidding. Wink

Finally, the PSOE gain some good sense. Going to a third election would be suicide.

Spain was fine. No joke. The hard times are going to begin just now, with the harsh budget cuts demanded by the European Commission. The PP government -otherwise a champion of austerity- failed in the fulfillment of deficit targets, because 2015 was an election year and the government approved certain tax reductions.

I thought that suicide and good sense were antithetical, but it's just me Wink

The "just kidding" was that you cannot be without a government for a very long time. But also because, here in Portugal, we joke that the solution to our dying economy is to have no government at all, just look at Spain. Wink
But you're right, although Spain is growing 3%, one of the strongest showing in Europe, now the EU is going to demand a deficit bellow 3%, it's going to be tough.
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