What to do about Chavez?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

We have some anti-American liberals who favor leftist governments simply because they are hostile to the US, but I don't think this is the right path.

no it is not because they are hostile to the US, it's because we agree with their economic policies more. Get that through your ing head. If this were true, I would love North Korea and the Taliban, (gee, I don't). Plus I don't hate America, so why would I support places just for being anti-American? You love using this moronic strawmkan.

[??????????]

We have some anti-American liberals who favor leftist governments simply because they are hostile to the US, but I don't think this is the right path.

no it is not because they are hostile to the US, it's because we agree with their economic policies more. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR G HEAD.

Yes, because communism was a huge success. I mean, who doesnt want breadlines?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Except Chavez isn't a communist.

I'm just sick of dazzleman saying liberals like anyone who's anti-American. Does he think liberals are giant fans of bin Laden?

[??????????]

Except Chavez isn't a communist.

I'm just sick of dazzleman saying liberals like anyone who's anti-American. Does he think liberals are giant fans of bin Laden?

Obviously they are...more like apologists for terrorists really.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Ha, if you think bin Laden is very popular on DU you are sorely mistaken.

[went that way]

Chavez isn't even Marxist.  He would be alot more friendly if the US didn't try overthrowing him in 2002.

[went that way]

Some one mentioned Communism.

"I have heard from lots of people that communism is dead and they make some good points, the Soviet Union has fallen, China and Vietnam are both heading toward capitalism and Cuba is too weak to make a differance.
I have also heard the argument that communism is back on the rise. Venezuela, Chiapas and several other south american movements are gaining strength and support. Cuba has increased the effectiveness of its social policies and remained communist. China is moving toward capitalism but still has a huge communist movement.

'Communism hasnt even been born.

None of those countries, not even Cuba, have come close to creating a communist society. Remember that communism in it's present form is still only about 160 years old - it needs a lot more time before anyone can say communism is dead. Plus there is a great revolutionary spirit that is growing.'"
From http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=34935

[WMS]

Actually, from Stratfor: [emphasis mine]

"The protests against Bolanos in Nicaragua are the latest manifestation of spreading regional unrest that also has affected Ecuador, Bolivia and, to a lesser extent, Peru. Stratfor does not think the political unrest in these countries occurred coincidentally. The protesters and the tactics they employ are very similar. Students, public transportation unions and organized labor groups have been at the forefront of demonstrations in all three countries, including the protests that toppled former Ecuadorian President Lucio Gutierrez on April 21 and nearly compelled Bolivian President Carlos Mesa to resign in February and March.

The individuals and groups leading these protests -- including Bolivian indigenous leader Evo Morales, Quito Mayor Paco Moncayo and Sandinista university leader Martinez in Managua -- belong to a Venezuela-sponsored regional group called the Bolivarian Congress of the Peoples (CBP). The CBP's membership is a mirror image of the Sao Paulo Forum (FSP), a regional group co-founded in 1990 by Cuban leader Fidel Castro and Brazilian President Luiz Inacio "Lula" da Silva.

The FSP functions as a region-wide venue for debating and coordinating leftist ideas and political agendas. However, the three-year-old CBP is an activist grassroots organization that is pushing aggressively for changes of government in countries which leftists in the region perceive as too closely aligned with the United States.

Government officials in La Paz and Managua and independent sources in Quito believe that increasing anti-government protests during the past year in Bolivia, Ecuador and Nicaragua have received international political and financial support through groups affiliated with the CBP. These sources believe the governments of Cuba and Venezuela are working with the support of U.S.-based leftist nongovernmental organizations to organize, encourage and even finance grassroots popular protests against pro-U.S. governments.
------------------------------------------

Uh, Chavez is going well past changing things in Venezuela - he's trying to turn all of Latin America hostile to the U.S. Yipe.

[??????????]

Some one mentioned Communism.

"I have heard from lots of people that communism is dead and they make some good points, the Soviet Union has fallen, China and Vietnam are both heading toward capitalism and Cuba is too weak to make a differance.
I have also heard the argument that communism is back on the rise. Venezuela, Chiapas and several other south american movements are gaining strength and support. Cuba has increased the effectiveness of its social policies and remained communist. China is moving toward capitalism but still has a huge communist movement.

'Communism hasnt even been born.

None of those countries, not even Cuba, have come close to creating a communist society. Remember that communism in it's present form is still only about 160 years old - it needs a lot more time before anyone can say communism is dead. Plus there is a great revolutionary spirit that is growing.'"
From http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=34935

Okie Dokie. So you're saying Stalin wasn't a communist?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

no, he wasn't a true communist, he was a megalomaniac totalitarian despot.

[Beet]

This Chavez guy sounds like the Venezuelan version of Huey Long. On the other hand, I wouldn't bet an inch off my dick most Venezuelans don't support him.

[Cubby]

The only reason this thread exists is because someone read his National Review like a good little boy. I actually read the story at work. Its author is Otto Reich, a discredited neo-con very similar to John "Yosemite Sam" Bolton. I occasionally read the Review to keep an eye on what the American Wahabiasts are thinking, but I get very angry reading it.

I supported ousting Chavez in '02/'03, because I tend to root for the underdog, but in this case I was wrong, later learning that the anti-Chavez people were just greedy capitalists who didn't want "their" oil wealth to be given to the Venezuelan poor. And no that statement does not mean I support communism.

I'm outraged at the nonchalant way people on this thread talk about killing the elected leader of a foreign country. Its obvious you've learned nothing from our experiences in Iran, Guatemala and Chile during the Cold War. Iran especially was a disaster that came back to bite us in the ass in 1979. Not to mention the fact that it is morally indefensible.

I'll admit that Chavez at times seems like a dictator, but the conservative reaction to his power seems to be hysteria. You guys can't stand the idea of someone governing who you can't control.

[jaichind]

I personally think that Latin American, unlike Iraq, is part of the USA sphere of influence and I totally understand if USA overthrows Chavez given that it serves USA interests.  That Chavez is elected democratically or not does not mean a hill of beans to me, just like Allende of Chile in 1973.  Only thing is that Bush II painted himself into a corner with all this talk about democray and so on.  Do not see how he justifies any sort of action when Chavez just won 59% of the vote in a USA funded attempt to oust him in a recall.  I say if he is in the way overthrow him but do not make any more noise about march of democray and assorted garbage.