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| |-+  Political Debate (Moderators: Beet, Apocrypha)
| | |-+  Should Armenian Genocide denial be a criminal offense?
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Question: Should Armenian Genocide denial be a criminal offense?
Yes.   -12 (19.4%)
Yes; but only because of the Turks.   -3 (4.8%)
No.   -46 (74.2%)
No; but only because the Turks are the real victims.   -1 (1.6%)
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Total Voters: 62

Author Topic: Should Armenian Genocide denial be a criminal offense?  (Read 4274 times)
ingemann
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« on: April 08, 2015, 02:09:12 pm »
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Inspired by the Holocaust thread.
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2015, 02:10:04 pm »
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Yes. Denying any historically proven genocide should be a criminal offense.
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2015, 02:11:50 pm »
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Yes. Denying any historically proven genocide should be a criminal offense.
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TNF
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2015, 02:13:38 pm »
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No, because locking people up for saying the wrong words or thinking the wrong thoughts, when not in the context of a revolution or civil war, is stupid.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2015, 03:04:53 pm »
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In the USA?  No.

In Turkey? ...Yeah, probably.
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2015, 03:59:58 pm »
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I think I agree with Train on this one.
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ingemann
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 04:11:27 pm »
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In the USA?  No.

In Turkey? ...Yeah, probably.

Well good point.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2015, 07:15:27 pm »
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No (Supports free speech)
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2015, 08:46:08 pm »
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Plus the Armenian Genocide really isn't relevant to anything related to the United States, as awful as it was. Why should people be jailed over denying something that is rarely discussed by the mainstream public anyway?
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2015, 10:06:53 pm »
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Plus the Armenian Genocide really isn't relevant to anything related to the United States, as awful as it was. Why should people be jailed over denying something that is rarely discussed by the mainstream public anyway?

The US has had a pretty significant Armenian population historically.
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TNF
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2015, 10:26:16 pm »
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Plus the Armenian Genocide really isn't relevant to anything related to the United States, as awful as it was. Why should people be jailed over denying something that is rarely discussed by the mainstream public anyway?

The US has had a pretty significant Armenian population historically.

Doesn't justify locking people up for saying words and thinking thoughts.
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Cory
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2015, 10:35:09 pm »
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This. It amazes me how segments of the European Left are more then willing to utterly throw away the right to free speech when it disagrees with them politically.
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« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2015, 09:34:38 am »
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I think train has a decent point about Turkey, since Armenian Genocide denial in Turkey tends to be a form of hate speech (which I for the record think is fine to ban, as much of a liberal as I am generally).

But I think the notion of governments defining truths that cannot be denied without getting thrown in jail is scary as fck. No thanks.
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« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2015, 06:07:47 pm »
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Isn't the Turkish argument basically that it wasn't a genocide because they were never interested in totally eliminating the Armenian people, just the ones who lived in Turkey?
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ingemann
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2015, 05:04:03 am »
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Isn't the Turkish argument basically that it wasn't a genocide because they were never interested in totally eliminating the Armenian people, just the ones who lived in Turkey?

No the Turkish view is it didn't happen/it happened, but it was the Kurds who did it/It happened, but it was self defence/The Armenians really asked for it/the Turks was the real victims.

The view you present, are the view of Turkish/Ottoman apoligists in the West, because they know that the above talking point would really not play well in the West. The truth are that Turkey and the Turks see themselves as historical victims of all those ungrateful subject people, who rebelled against the benevolent Ottoman Empire (who spread the light of civilisation to the barabarians) because they was subhuman scum, and yes of course there's people in Turkey who disagree with this view, but Turkey are truly a post imperial state with a victim complex, and let be honest it was not like their settlers and collabators in their former empire was treated well after the Ottoman Empire lost control over their non-Anatolian possessions, and many Turks are descendent of expelled people from the Balkans, Ukraine and southern Russia.

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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2015, 04:49:07 am »
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Of course, I believe those who do deny the Armenian Genocide (and any genocide) should be condemned strongly. They just shouldn't be criminally prosecuted.
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2015, 01:36:35 pm »
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Plus the Armenian Genocide really isn't relevant to anything related to the United States, as awful as it was. Why should people be jailed over denying something that is rarely discussed by the mainstream public anyway?

The US has had a pretty significant Armenian population historically.
No doubting that, but as TNF noted, there is no reason for jailing people over an issue that is only important to one sector of the population.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2015, 02:21:24 pm »
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Of course, I believe those who do deny the Armenian Genocide (and any genocide) should be condemned strongly. They just shouldn't be criminally prosecuted.
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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2015, 12:03:35 pm »
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Yes. Denying any historically proven genocide should be a criminal offense.

There's a slippery slope there.
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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2015, 02:46:41 pm »
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No.
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« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2015, 01:16:49 pm »
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Yes. Denying any historically proven genocide should be a criminal offense.

But that means Obama is a criminal.
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« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2015, 11:34:03 am »
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Time to lock Obama up.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150422/us-obama-armenia-d160258114.html
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politicus
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« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2015, 11:42:42 am »
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Well, with a very clear campaign promise and little time left in office this was the man and the moment Now it looks like it will only be after Turkey itself finally gives in.

Wonder if we will see all 50 states recognizing before the federal government, that would be a bizarre situation. Only seven left.
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politicus
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« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2015, 11:51:10 am »
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« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2015, 12:50:42 pm »
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Of course, I believe those who do deny the Armenian Genocide (and any genocide) should be condemned strongly. They just shouldn't be criminally prosecuted.
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