Honolulu

[ottermax]

Small question regarding Honolulu. Why does the census count it's CDP for population statistics and ranking rather than the city and county of Honolulu like it does for San Francisco, Jacksonville, etc.

[Cranberry]

If I'm not wrong here, the combined City and County of Honolulu encompasses all of the island of Oahu, which obviously is not fully urbanised nor all part of the same city. Thus, the only meaningful data of the city as comparable to other cities is that of the CDP. You can compare this rather to Los Angeles County/Los Angeles proper - in terms of distribution of population - than to the other Cities and Counties you mentioned, like for example Sam Francisco.

[cinyc]

I don't know why Census uses the Urban Honolulu CCP as default for the population of Honolulu, instead of the City and County of Honolulu's population.  I do know that in Hawaii, like in19 other states, Census carves unincorporated areas of counties into Census County Divisions (CCDs) for statistical purposes, instead of using Minor Civil Divisions (MCDs).  But California and Florida are also two states where CCDs are used, so, in theory, Census could have carved the city and county of San Francisco into CCDs if it really wanted to.

Jacksonville, Florida isn't coterminous with Duval County for Census' purposes.  Four municipalities in Duval County (Baldwin, Atlantic Beach, Neptune Beach, and Jacksonville Beach) retained their muncipal governments, and, although their residents get to vote in Jacksonville's local elections, Census does not treat the 40,000 or so residents of those towns as living in the city of Jacksonville.

[jimrtex]

Small question regarding Honolulu. Why does the census count it's CDP for population statistics and ranking rather than the city and county of Honolulu like it does for San Francisco, Jacksonville, etc.

There is an agreement between Hawaii and the Census Bureau and the state of Hawaii to not do so. If they did use the City and County of Honolulu, then statistical data would not reported except at the census tract level or for the entire island of Oahu.

All the county governments in Hawaii have mayors, and there are no incorporated cities other than Honolulu.  The City and County of Honolulu is somewhat a naming construct.  Oahu County had no government, but the City of Honolulu covered the entire island.

Incidentally, Jacksonville is not identical to Duval County.  There are other incorporated areas in Duval County.  So even though there is a consolidated government, it is not fully consolidated.

[jimrtex]

I don't know why Census uses the Urban Honolulu CCP as default for the population of Honolulu, instead of the City and County of Honolulu's population.  I do know that in Hawaii, like in19 other states, Census carves unincorporated areas of counties into Census County Divisions (CCDs) for statistical purposes, instead of using Minor Civil Divisions (MCDs).  But California and Florida are also two states where CCDs are used, so, in theory, Census could have carved the city and county of San Francisco into CCDs if it really wanted to.

MCD's don't exist everywhere, or were quite artificial or temporary areas.  They might not even be recognized locally.  In the west where the PLSS existed, townships often had very small populations.  For all these reasons, they weren't very suitable for census purposes.

CCD's were first defined in Washington state for the 1950 Census.  Washington had a willing volunteer to define the CCDs.  The original idea was to define census divisions within cities, and there were 146 such areas in Washington.   There was a fairly strong emphasis on the use of CCD for the agricultural census, and recognizing economic relationships to smaller towns.

When CCDs were developed on a national basis, mostly in the 1950s, they weren't used in cities, where census tracts were used.   Land use changes too much in urban areas for CCDs to be of much use even for statistical purposes.  Census tracts can be modified on a granular basis as an area develops.  While they might not be recognized by the public, they can be stable unce an area is developed.