ANC win landslide in South Africa

[ShapeShifter]

All Al has are sarcastic rants.  The ANC has destroyed South Africa.  Their behavior is indefensible.

When I point out that the ANC has destroyed the school system, he tells me to "grow up".  He never acknowledges the problem or rebuts the charge.

Why do some people refuse to accept reality?  Why the initiation of personal attacks in place of honest debate?

because your debate is based on over generalization of a situation, so hence, why bother

[The Duke]

ShapeShifter says my argument is based on generalizations, so why should anyone bother with me.

Here are a few examples.

The economy is shrinking, foreign investment is down, and unemployment has risen.
The education system is in shambles.
Crime has skyrocketed, including the highest rate of gender based violence of any country that is not at war.
HIV is running rampant and Mbeki claims that HIV doesn't exist, that it is a Jewish lie.

There are some examples.

Specific enough?

[ShapeShifter]

ShapeShifter says my argument is based on generalizations, so why should anyone bother with me.

Here are a few.

The economy is shrinking, foreign investment is down, and unemployment has risen.
The education system is in shambles.
Crime has skyrocketed, including the highest rate of gender based violence of any country that is not at war.
HIV is running rampant and Mbeki claims that HIV doesn't exist, that it is a Jewish lie.

There are some examples.

Specific enough?

Next time when you make over generalization like...

"The ANC has turned South Africa into a rathole.

They are the single most destructive force in any Demcoratic country in the world right now.

The only reason they win is because the blacks in South Africa are too pissed off to think straight."

save us the pain, and give the specifics first. Then maybe you won't get response that have no substance in them - like personal attacks.

[The Duke]

In post 13 on this thread, I said, “The ANC has turned South Africa into a rat hole.  They are the single most destructive force in any Democratic country in the world right now.  The only reason they win is because the blacks in South Africa are too pissed off to think straight.”

As his response in post 14, Al accused me of pining for apartheid.  In other words, I am apparently a racist for disagreeing with Al and the ANC.  If this is not a generalization, I do not know what is.  Yet there is not one unkind word from ShapeShifter.

In post 15, I responded by citing the education system as a specific failure of the ANC.

In post 16, Al told me to “grow up”.

In post 18, opebo said, “South Africa's a horrible mess - everyone's leaving who can.  In other words the whites.”  The point was to show that not only has the ANC failed to provide for the basic needs of citizens but it has done nothing to ameliorate the disparity in economic opportunity for whites and blacks.

In post 19, Al implied that opebo is also a racist.  His evidence?  He implied that opebo had lamented the loss of the right of whites to shoot kaffirs.  Where exactly in opebo’s post did he refer to kaffirs?  Yet not a word from ShapeShifter condemning this slander.

In post 21, Al says that the situation has improved over the last ten years.  Yet there is not one example.  There is also no criticism from ShapeShifter for this generalization.

In post 26, I said, “When I point out that the ANC has destroyed the school system, he tells me to ‘grow up’.  He never acknowledges the problem or rebuts the charge…Why the initiation of personal attacks in place of honest debate?”

In post 27-28, ShapeShifter jumps in, responding to post 26: “because your debate is based on over generalization of a situation, so hence, why bother”.  In these posts he quotes me in post 26, the very post where I specifically cited education as an ANC policy failure, then goes on to say that my view is a “generalization” and has no evidence (see post 27).

In post 29, I respond to my accusers.  I cite as evidence that in South Africa, “The economy is shrinking, foreign investment is down, and unemployment has risen.  The education system is in shambles.  Crime has skyrocketed, including the highest rate of gender based violence of any country that is not at war.  HIV is running rampant and Mbeki claims that HIV doesn't exist, that it is a Jewish lie.”

In post 30, ShapeShifter responds, “save us the pain, and give the specifics first.”

In other words, it is okay for Al to call opebo a racist without any evidence, and call me a childish racist without any evidence.  However, in order for Republicans to be granted the right to free speech they must provide a mountain of evidence first.

nice double standard ShapeShifter.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Is there any point arguing with someone who won't listen?
South Africa was a mess BEFORE the ANC came to power.

[ShapeShifter]

In post 13 on this thread, I said, “The ANC has turned South Africa into a rat hole.  They are the single most destructive force in any Democratic country in the world right now.  The only reason they win is because the blacks in South Africa are too pissed off to think straight.”

As his response in post 14, Al accused me of pining for apartheid.  In other words, I am apparently a racist for disagreeing with Al and the ANC.  If this is not a generalization, I do not know what is.  Yet there is not one unkind word from ShapeShifter.

In post 15, I responded by citing the education system as a specific failure of the ANC.

In post 16, Al told me to “grow up”.

In post 18, opebo said, “South Africa's a horrible mess - everyone's leaving who can.  In other words the whites.”  The point was to show that not only has the ANC failed to provide for the basic needs of citizens but it has done nothing to ameliorate the disparity in economic opportunity for whites and blacks.

In post 19, Al implied that opebo is also a racist.  His evidence?  He implied that opebo had lamented the loss of the right of whites to shoot kaffirs.  Where exactly in opebo’s post did he refer to kaffirs?  Yet not a word from ShapeShifter condemning this slander.

In post 21, Al says that the situation has improved over the last ten years.  Yet there is not one example.  There is also no criticism from ShapeShifter for this generalization.

In post 26, I said, “When I point out that the ANC has destroyed the school system, he tells me to ‘grow up’.  He never acknowledges the problem or rebuts the charge…Why the initiation of personal attacks in place of honest debate?”

In post 27-28, ShapeShifter jumps in, responding to post 26: “because your debate is based on over generalization of a situation, so hence, why bother”.  In these posts he quotes me in post 26, the very post where I specifically cited education as an ANC policy failure, then goes on to say that my view is a “generalization” and has no evidence (see post 27).

In post 29, I respond to my accusers.  I cite as evidence that in South Africa, “The economy is shrinking, foreign investment is down, and unemployment has risen.  The education system is in shambles.  Crime has skyrocketed, including the highest rate of gender based violence of any country that is not at war.  HIV is running rampant and Mbeki claims that HIV doesn't exist, that it is a Jewish lie.”

In post 30, ShapeShifter responds, “save us the pain, and give the specifics first.”

In other words, it is okay for Al to call opebo a racist without any evidence, and call me a childish racist without any evidence.  However, in order for Republicans to be granted the right to free speech they must provide a mountain of evidence first.

nice double standard ShapeShifter.

First off, I am not going to waste my time writing a long post like yours because I can care less about South Africa.

Second, I did not even read any of Al's post because I don't care about this topic and was just bored and skimming through the posts in here.

Third, you assume too much.

Fourth, I was not disagreeing with anything you said, just answering your question as to why people were not debating and just giving personal attack.

Last, I am flattered that you felt compel to write a long post to try to discredit me.

[ShapeShifter]

Is there any point arguing with someone who won't listen?
South Africa was a mess BEFORE the ANC came to power.

No because he feel this is all about Republican vs Democrats yada yada yada

[StevenNick]

First off, I am not going to waste my time writing a long post like yours because I can care less about South Africa.

You mean you can't care less.

And why can't you care?  It's because they're black isn't it?

[ShapeShifter]

First off, I am not going to waste my time writing a long post like yours because I can care less about South Africa.

You mean you can't care less.

And why can't you care?  It's because they're black isn't it?

Technically, I am part "black" because I am of Hispanic decent. I don't care because I don't have enough information to care.

[StevenNick]

Since when was hispanic black?

I guess I'm technically part black too then because I'm about one sixty-fourth Cherokee.  

[M]

Mbeki does claim that HIV does not exist. That is just- how shall I phrase this delicately?- lunatic! Good to know DA wins with Cape blacks, hopefully that can spread to Pretoria, Johannesburg, Durbin, etc. One party domination is not good.

[StevenNick]

Mbeki does claim that HIV does not exist. That is just- how shall I phrase this delicately?- lunatic! Good to know DA wins with Cape blacks, hopefully that can spread to Pretoria, Johannesburg, Durbin, etc. One party domination is not good.

Especially when the ruling party is so godawful.

[ShapeShifter]

Since when was hispanic black?

I guess I'm technically part black too then because I'm about one sixty-fourth Cherokee.  

You ever wonder why Hispanics are not consider a race? Because Hispanics are a very mixed group of people who is made of different races. Cherokee??? If I am not mistaken, isn't that Native American?

[Gustaf]

Mbeki does claim that HIV does not exist. That is just- how shall I phrase this delicately?- lunatic! Good to know DA wins with Cape blacks, hopefully that can spread to Pretoria, Johannesburg, Durbin, etc. One party domination is not good.

Yeah, that's pretty much my view as well...

[WMS]

Now that the ANC has the ability to change the Constitution, I wonder what path they will take? I seem to remember another country in which one 'tribe', after overthrowing a Boer government, won total control in elections and proceeded to gradually impose a police state. That was...the Shona, in Zimbabwe. A cautionary tale. And Al, I root for the DA over the ANC in part because the ANC are a bunch of Castro-snugglers. Bah!

[bejkuy]

Is there any point arguing with someone who won't listen?
South Africa was a mess BEFORE the ANC came to power.

Not in comparison with the rest of Africa.

[Gustaf]

Is there any point arguing with someone who won't listen?
South Africa was a mess BEFORE the ANC came to power.

Not in comparison with the rest of Africa.

True, but it doesn't say a lot, now does it?

It's interesting to remember though that Africans actually fled TO South Africa, since the apartheid rule often was better than living under their own dictators...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Is there any point arguing with someone who won't listen?
South Africa was a mess BEFORE the ANC came to power.

Not in comparison with the rest of Africa.

True, but it doesn't say a lot, now does it?

It's interesting to remember though that Africans actually fled TO South Africa, since the apartheid rule often was better than living under their own dictators...

*Cough* Soweto *Cough*