I Need Help

[12th Doctor]

Okay, here is the situation:

I am writing a 20 page paper on nationalism in Europe.  The main focus of my paper is going to be anti-EU parties and groups in Europe, but I also want info on tracking polls for EU constitution support, some anti-EU columnists in Europe and any type of "man on the street" info you can give me.  It's due on Thursday.  ANY help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

[Jake]

PM Umengus. He seems to have the pulse of France on the EU Constitution.  Probably, Al will be able to hook you up with anything you want to know about the EU's image in the UK.

[12th Doctor]

Hey guys, I still need help here, please.

[minionofmidas]

We don't really have this sort of "columnist" culture here, so pass on this one.
The EU constitution doesn't really ignite much passion in Germany, pro or con...the fact that the people won't be able to vote on it helps, I guess...but I can't even remember seeing any recent or demirecent polls on support. There were occasional polls on support for the Euro (which was never high...though nowadays few people still want the Mark back). Last summer, there was sort of a "debate" on whether there should be a referendum on the EU constitution. The CDU claimed they wanted one, then as usual backed off when they were taken seriously. (Referenda on the national stage are actually constitutionally banned in Germany...don't ask me why...and the ban is close to the CDU's heart...don't ask me why...and of course you can't change the constitution without them). What else do you want to know?

[Colin]

I would check EBSCO. We use it alot for research papers at school. All you need is a PA Public Library Card, although I'm pretty sure that your college library would have access. The website is www.powerlibrary.org, IIRC.

[12th Doctor]

I would check EBSCO. We use it alot for research papers at school. All you need is a PA Public Library Card, although I'm pretty sure that your college library would have access. The website is www.powerlibrary.org, IIRC.

I am aware of it.  That is not what I am looking for.  I don't want papers written by snooty achedemics, I want to cut through the "holy than thou art" crap that the Europeans try to pull against us and get down to the reality of what is going on.

[12th Doctor]

We don't really have this sort of "columnist" culture here, so pass on this one.
The EU constitution doesn't really ignite much passion in Germany, pro or con...the fact that the people won't be able to vote on it helps, I guess...but I can't even remember seeing any recent or demirecent polls on support. There were occasional polls on support for the Euro (which was never high...though nowadays few people still want the Mark back). Last summer, there was sort of a "debate" on whether there should be a referendum on the EU constitution. The CDU claimed they wanted one, then as usual backed off when they were taken seriously. (Referenda on the national stage are actually constitutionally banned in Germany...don't ask me why...and the ban is close to the CDU's heart...don't ask me why...and of course you can't change the constitution without them). What else do you want to know?

What about neo-nazism in Germany, and other nationalist groups and movements.  What about anti-Turkish sentiment in Germany, as well.  Anything concrete you can give me there?

Also, anything about your governments attemps to ignore, or play-down the problem?

[MHS2002]

http://europa.eu.int/comm/public_opinion/index_en.htm

Will this help you any?

[12th Doctor]

http://europa.eu.int/comm/public_opinion/index_en.htm

Will this help you any?

Yes, thank you.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

In the 2004 European Elections, UKIP (anti-EU party) took third place (ahead of the LibDems).
They did best in the West Country, the old Notts-Derbyshire coalfield and various retirement resorts along the east coast. All areas are very socially conservative.

[12th Doctor]

In the 2004 European Elections, UKIP (anti-EU party) took third place (ahead of the LibDems).
They did best in the West Country, the old Notts-Derbyshire coalfield and various retirement resorts along the east coast. All areas are very socially conservative.

Thank you.  What else can you tell me about it?  Or about the BNP for that matter?  Do you have any hard info you can give to me?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Thank you.  What else can you tell me about it?  Or about the BNP for that matter?  Do you have any hard info you can give to me?

Try this:

http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp2004/rp04-050.pdf

As for the BNP, they tend to do well in areas with a tradition of working class Toryism (like Burnley, Bradford, Blackburn, Essex, Keighley etc. Oddly enough not Birmingham yet... but when the Hemming machine collapses in Yardley I'm certain they've win a few council seats there) and *near* areas with large minority populations (often in white flight areas). Most BNP voters appear to be lower middle class (U.K definition) people, often living in "respectable" neighbourhoods, in direct contrast to the media image of them all living on sinkhole estates.

[Middle-aged Europe]

What about neo-nazism in Germany, and other nationalist groups and movements.  What about anti-Turkish sentiment in Germany, as well.  Anything concrete you can give me there?

Also, anything about your governments attemps to ignore, or play-down the problem?

As Lewis always pointed out, the Germans don´t care very much about the EU constitution. Most Germans probably don´t even know that this constution exists. And I´m not sure wether this would be much different with a national referendum on the consitution. Generally, the German population seems to be more interested how the British yellow press labels "our" new pope. :rollseyes: So, it isn´t exactly a hot button issue.

I also concur that the position of the CDU is somewhat schizophrenic: they are (or were) in favor of a national referendum on the EU constitution, but are generally opposing referanda on national level. I think in the case of the SPD it´s just the opposite, which makes a bit more sense... but only slightly.

All the parties in the Bundestag are supporting the EU constitution with the aforementioned semi-exception of the CDU/CSU. They´re getting a bit more critical of the constitution when a election is near, but it had never any substantial effect on their actual policies. I think the only "major" political party in opposition to the constitution is the PDS, probably for the same reasons some French leftists oppose the consitution (EU = too "capitalist", too "militarist" etc.).

The ultra right-wing parties are of course opposing the EU constitution. Not that it would matter much. In the last elections to the European parliament the REP got 1.9% and the NPD 0.9% of the vote. The DVU didn´t run.

About your question of "anti-Turkish sentiment"... there isn´t any anti-Turkish sentiment, only anti-immigrant sentiment. You´re not saying: "I hate Turks, but LOVE the Libanese, Morrocans, Vietnamese, Ukrainians etc.". Either you´re for or against immigration... or you simply don´t care. But I never heard of "anti-Turkish sentiment".

The admittance of Turkey is a different matter (probably you meant this). CDU/CSU are oppposing a EU membership of Turkey (at least since they´re in opposition, until 1998 they were strong supporters of it), SPD and Greens are in favor. I guess the FDP is somewhat neutral, but compared to the stance of the CDU/CSU they appear as a "pro-Turkey" party.

[Gustaf]

Supersoulty,
In Sweden Junilistan, which isn't exactly nationalist but anti-EU captured 3rd place in the Swedish EUropean elections last June after less than 6 months of existence.

About the constitution the general picture in EUrope is nobody cares about it and of those who do I think most are sceptical. Generally, the population in Northern Europe (Scandinavia, the UK, Austria, nowadays also the Netherlands and Germany) are pretty unhappy with the EU. In Southern Europe people are more positive. But no average man cares much for the EU, it's by and large a project for, by and of politicians.

[minionofmidas]

What the Zoni said.

Well...on immigration...there do seem to be people who think only the Turks (or only Muslims) are the problem. Not among those who know anything about the matter, though. Not in a 30% noncitizen city like Frankfurt, for example - where the claim that they're somehow less integrated than other immigrant groups is immediately debunked by opening one eye. And not on the hard right either. They dislike an Italian or a Serbian or a Vietnamese just as much.

[minionofmidas]

I should add that just to play things extra safe, and perhaps to influence the vote there, we'll now ratify the Constitution a few days before the French vote on it.

[12th Doctor]

So, then you would all agree that the "Euro-intellectual" idea of the EU being a kind of "death of nationalism" in Europe is no where near the truth, not only because there is growing opposition, but also because those who are not opposed really don't give a damn?

[12th Doctor]

What is all of your guy's oppinion about the idea that the French are using the EU as a away of strengthening their own global power by making themselves the defacto leaders of Europe?

[Jens]

Denmark has a long and strong tradition for resistance against EC/EU. The People's Movement against the EC http://www.folkebevaegelsen.dk/soeg.php?tekst=English has existed since before we entered the EC in 1973 and the anti-EU parties has helt up to 40 % of the Danish mandates in the EU parliament. At two occations did we in referendums reject EU iniciatives. In 1992, the Maastricht treaty and later in 2001 to the Euro.
Initially the resistance was based to the leftwing but today there are to very different aproaches. The left that sees EU as a capitalist project that dehumanises the populations of the EU countries and the right that sees EU as an end to the Danish nation and to what is "truely" Danish

From www.danskfolkeparti.dk
Danish independence and freedom are primary objectives of Danish foreign policy.

The Danish People’s Party wishes friendly and dynamic cooperation with all the democratic and freedom-loving peoples of the world, but we will not allow Denmark to surrender its sovereignty.

As a consequence, the Danish People’s Party opposes the European Union.

[Jens]

From the extreme left
http://www.apk2000.dk/english/kp-international/kpint2003/2003-kpint0927-swedeneuro.html

Yes to Denmark’s Withdrawal from the EU
By Klaus Riis, Editor of Kommunistisk Politik. From Kommunistisk Politik, No. 19, September 27, 2003.

“The Swedish “no” to the euro at the referendum on September 14 will not have any consequences for Denmark,” Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen said at the evening of the referendum, commenting on it.

Ever since, Fogh Rasmussen and the pro-EU parties have been thinking like crazies. Naturally, the Swedish “no” has encouraged the Danish anti-EU movement as well as the Norwegian, which again enjoys a majority against EU membership in opinion polls.

First Fogh Rasmussen thought of making a referendum on Denmark’s opt-out on justice – not on its abolition, but on a change which would mean that the national parliament could abolish it – together with the promised referendum on the EU constitution [now officially, imprecisely and falsely being called the “EU Treaty” in the media]. Then he let a “bomb” detonate at a debate meeting at the University of Aarhus, as he declared: “A “no” at the referendum will mean Denmark’s withdrawal from the EU.”

During the evening, he got the support of all the pro-EU parties: If the Danes vote “no” to the EU constitution next year, this will in reality mean that Denmark withdraws from the EU. They all protest that it is not an April fool in September.

But there is not the slightest reason for believing them. If the result of the referendum, where the question is – if not formally then at least politically – a clear choice between continued EU membership or not, would be a “no”, then all the pro-EU parties will try to do whatever they can to sabotage this “no” and hinder Danish withdrawal from the EU, just as they did not respect the “no” to the Nice Treaty in 1992, the four opt-outs of 1993 as a result of the forced second referendum, or the “no” to the euro in 2000. In this last referendum, 53.1 percent voted against the euro and 46.9 percent for it. The Danes clearly said “no thanks” to the euro with an electoral participation of 87.5 percent.

It was the same majority of Danes, having the majority of the political parties, the employer’s organisations, the top of the Danish Trade Confederation, all the media and the money against them, who beat them all and won at the referendums; it was the same majority who have been threatened, lured and lied for, and despite of that, have rejected all new steps of the project of the monopolies, “The United States of Europe”.

Ever since, setting aside the decisions of the majority of the Danish people has been the objective of the EU policy of the pro-EU parties.

They cannot do anything else. It is their nature. Of course, they maintain that they represent the whole nation and the interests of the people, but after all their purpose is to look after the interests of capital and the capitalist state which are opposed to both immediate and long-term interests of the workers and the great majority and opposed to the national interest in independence and independent development.

There is no reason for believing them an inch. They will never respect a “no”.

Of course, Fogh Rasmussen’s statement on Denmark’s withdrawal from the EU in case of a “no” has been arranged with the parliamentary supporting party of the government, the Danish People’s Party, which raised the same question on its national congress. That is the game being played. The Danish People’s Party does not want Denmark’s withdrawal from the EU. It is not a secret admirer of Norway. Being an ultrareactionary party in every aspect, its heart beats for the US, the Bush administration and its imperialist campaign against Muslims and the world’s poor countries and peoples.

As a populist party, the Danish People’s Party has always been sponging on the opposition to the EU which was strong, broad and popular, not at least in the working class, long before Pia Kjaersgaard [national leader of the Danish People’s Party, translator’s note] and the Danish People’s Party were invented, at the time when Mogens Glistrup and his Progress Party [founded in 1972 from which the Danish People’s Party came into being in 1995, translator's note] were among the happy pro-EU parties.

Now, the Danish People’s Party is being portrayed as the “Out of EU-party number one”. It has never been that, nor will it ever be, but this image will drive EU-sceptics to the pro-EU camp and strengthen the Danish People’s Party, and not anything else.

If the Prime Minister and the pro-EU parties are serious, let them – and they have a majority in the national parliament – formulate the ballot paper with the options of voting for the EU constitution or Denmark’s withdrawal from the EU. This would be plain language. The anti-EU movement would also be able to win such a referendum because the majority of the Danes and the Danish nation are better off outside both European and US imperialism, being independent and open for positive relations with all the countries and peoples of the world.

The consistent, popular and class-based opposition to the EU must not be scared by the pro-EU camp turning the referendum into a referendum on the Danish EU membership. Nor should it be silent about the fact that the great majority of Danes will benefit from Denmark being outside the club of the monopolies. Leave it to the Socialist People’s Party and the June Movement to swear to continued EU membership even though they are opponents [of part] of the EU constitution. Let them make their horse trading in the form of national compromises, and let us instead mobilise for a clear class “no” and a clear popular “no” to the constitution of the EU superstate and superpower and for Denmark’s withdrawal from this bad company.

[minionofmidas]

So, then you would all agree that the "Euro-intellectual" idea of the EU being a kind of "death of nationalism" in Europe is no where near the truth, not only because there is growing opposition, but also because those who are not opposed really don't give a damn?

I'm not sure you can really talk about "growing opposition". "Waxing and waning" is more like it, while the EU itself grows in strength.
I don't see a "death of nationalism" around the corner though - although the ancient German/French antagonistic nationalism is certainly dead as a doornail. Which is easily the most important development in Europe 1945-89.
And just because lots of people don't care one bit about the minutiae, doesn't mean they don't care about the European idea.

But yeah, it's definitely true that the EU somewhat fails to emote. Due to a lack of democratic legitimation, mostly. Although the European Parliament is elected (in elections that were taken as serious as the national ones for a short while in the late 70s/early 80s, but not since...and which therefore suffer from ridiculously low turnout), the Commission is created largely by the heads of government. It's sorta like as if the Electoral College were made up of the State Governors.

[minionofmidas]

What is all of your guy's oppinion about the idea that the French are using the EU as a away of strengthening their own global power by making themselves the defacto leaders of Europe?

(yawn) also sometimes said of the Germans. Tiny kernel of truth created largely by Britain's ridiculous behaviour. Otherwise hilarious.

Sorry. Running out of patience. If you already know what sort of extremist anti-EU paper you want to produce, why ask me?

[Jens]

What is all of your guy's oppinion about the idea that the French are using the EU as a away of strengthening their own global power by making themselves the defacto leaders of Europe?

(yawn) also sometimes said of the Germans. Tiny kernel of truth created largely by Britain's ridiculous behaviour. Otherwise hilarious.

Sorry. Running out of patience. If you already know what sort of extremist anti-EU paper you want to produce, why ask me?

I'm with Lewis on this one. On member country has the capacity to make it the leader of the union. The EU is way to diversified and decentral to alow a leader country. (PS remember that I and as far as I remember, Lewis supports the EU while Gustaf is against. That do colour the picture quite a lot - Don't know the view of the Brits, the country hasn't been the same since Canute the Great )

[12th Doctor]

What is all of your guy's oppinion about the idea that the French are using the EU as a away of strengthening their own global power by making themselves the defacto leaders of Europe?

(yawn) also sometimes said of the Germans. Tiny kernel of truth created largely by Britain's ridiculous behaviour. Otherwise hilarious.

Sorry. Running out of patience. If you already know what sort of extremist anti-EU paper you want to produce, why ask me?

No, that is not the point of my paper.  The point is to analys nationalism in Europe and I intend to prove that the EU is not only not ending nationalism, but acctually taking it to new hieghts that have not been seen since the start of the Cold War.

So, you blame the British for "ridiculous behavior".  Tell me, is it common for the people of EU countires to disparage other EU member states?

[12th Doctor]

So, then you would all agree that the "Euro-intellectual" idea of the EU being a kind of "death of nationalism" in Europe is no where near the truth, not only because there is growing opposition, but also because those who are not opposed really don't give a damn?

I'm not sure you can really talk about "growing opposition". "Waxing and waning" is more like it, while the EU itself grows in strength.
I don't see a "death of nationalism" around the corner though - although the ancient German/French antagonistic nationalism is certainly dead as a doornail. Which is easily the most important development in Europe 1945-89.
And just because lots of people don't care one bit about the minutiae, doesn't mean they don't care about the European idea.

But yeah, it's definitely true that the EU somewhat fails to emote. Due to a lack of democratic legitimation, mostly. Although the European Parliament is elected (in elections that were taken as serious as the national ones for a short while in the late 70s/early 80s, but not since...and which therefore suffer from ridiculously low turnout), the Commission is created largely by the heads of government. It's sorta like as if the Electoral College were made up of the State Governors.

Do you think that this lack of "democratic" process is due largely to the fact that the governments of EU nations want it, but fear their people don't and thus don't trust them to handle the matter Democratically?