Europeization of the USA and americanization of Europe

[buritobr]

Do you think that since 2008, the USA has been becoming more European and Europe has been becoming more American?

In the USA, there is a presidente who favors na welfare state. His most importante domestic policy was the universal health care. Changes could be faster if there were no Republican majority in the Congress.
Europe in known for being more secularista than the USA. However, christian fundamentalismo in the USA is declining.

On the other side of the North Atlantic, there are many conservative leaders, like Merkel, Cameron and Rajoy. Even socialist leaders like Hollande and Tsispiras do not have enough room for left-wing policies.
Income inequality in Europe did not increase like what happened in the USA during the Reagan era. However, income inequality in Europe has been growing nowadays. Labor markets are becoming more flexible.
After the euro crisis, there is increasing pressure to reduce the spending on the welfare states.

[Famous Mortimer]

You missed the obvious one:

Every Euro election is basically a draw now.

While in America, we see huge waves every cycle.

[Consciously Unconscious]

The European conservative parties are nowhere near as conservative as the Republican Party, so I don't think it means that much.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

European conservative parties are just conservative in different issues.

[Middle-aged Europe]

On the other side of the North Atlantic, there are many conservative leaders, like Merkel, Cameron and Rajoy.

I wouldn't really describe Angela Merkel as "conservative" even in German/European context. She's more of a centrist, which means she would be a center-left politician in America. Her government did after all pass the first minimum wage law in the nation's history.

The AfD and the Pegida movement could be seen as German equivalents to the Tea Party though.

[Boston Bread]

You missed the obvious one:

Every Euro election is basically a draw now.

While in America, we see huge waves every cycle.

That's more a result of FPTP than any voter tendencies. American elections swinging back and forth between 45-55 and 55-45 ish is characterized as a "wave" due to FPTP distorting the winner's advantage. European elections have similar or larger swings but the effects are muted since they tend to have PR.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Do you think that since 2008, the USA has been becoming more European and Europe has been becoming more American?

In the USA, there is a presidente who favors na welfare state. His most importante domestic policy was the universal health care. Changes could be faster if there were no Republican majority in the Congress.
Europe in known for being more secularista than the USA. However, christian fundamentalismo in the USA is declining.

On the other side of the North Atlantic, there are many conservative leaders, like Merkel, Cameron and Rajoy. Even socialist leaders like Hollande and Tsispiras do not have enough room for left-wing policies.
Income inequality in Europe did not increase like what happened in the USA during the Reagan era. However, income inequality in Europe has been growing nowadays. Labor markets are becoming more flexible.
After the euro crisis, there is increasing pressure to reduce the spending on the welfare states.

Cameron would be a democrat in this country

[Franzl]

Do you think that since 2008, the USA has been becoming more European and Europe has been becoming more American?

In the USA, there is a presidente who favors na welfare state. His most importante domestic policy was the universal health care. Changes could be faster if there were no Republican majority in the Congress.
Europe in known for being more secularista than the USA. However, christian fundamentalismo in the USA is declining.

On the other side of the North Atlantic, there are many conservative leaders, like Merkel, Cameron and Rajoy. Even socialist leaders like Hollande and Tsispiras do not have enough room for left-wing policies.
Income inequality in Europe did not increase like what happened in the USA during the Reagan era. However, income inequality in Europe has been growing nowadays. Labor markets are becoming more flexible.
After the euro crisis, there is increasing pressure to reduce the spending on the welfare states.

Cameron would be a democrat in this country

Haha... no.

[Georg Ebner]

Important theme! The USA-politics is since ~Gingrich understandable to us Europeans. Formerly America had an uncritical personalism with changing alliances, ultracons. Southerners as Democrats, progressive Republians a.s.o., now it is as dogmatic (clearly Right-vs.-Left, with declining regional exceptions) as we are. You are getting a museum like OldEurope!?

[Beet]

Europe is not Americanizing because the right-wing in Europe still supports the welfare state (at least domestically). If they didn't, they'd get destroyed.

[Famous Mortimer]

Europe is not Americanizing because the right-wing in Europe still supports the welfare state (at least domestically). If they didn't, they'd get destroyed.

Republicans seem to support the welfare state, to some extent.

In both the US and Europe, conservatives only support maintaining the welfare up to the point it is already established. They always oppose expanding it.

Of course, in Europe, it has been expanded much more. That's why European conservatives appear less conservative than their American counterparts.

Really though, if they both had a free hand, they would both dismantle their welfare states completely.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Do you think that since 2008, the USA has been becoming more European and Europe has been becoming more American?

In the USA, there is a presidente who favors na welfare state. His most importante domestic policy was the universal health care. Changes could be faster if there were no Republican majority in the Congress.
Europe in known for being more secularista than the USA. However, christian fundamentalismo in the USA is declining.

On the other side of the North Atlantic, there are many conservative leaders, like Merkel, Cameron and Rajoy. Even socialist leaders like Hollande and Tsispiras do not have enough room for left-wing policies.
Income inequality in Europe did not increase like what happened in the USA during the Reagan era. However, income inequality in Europe has been growing nowadays. Labor markets are becoming more flexible.
After the euro crisis, there is increasing pressure to reduce the spending on the welfare states.

Cameron would be a democrat in this country

Haha... no.

BUT EUROPE IS SOOOOOO LEFT WING!!!!11!!! EVEN NIGEL FARAGE WOULD BE A DEMOCRAT IN THE US!!!!111!!!!

[buritobr]

Do you think that since 2008, the USA has been becoming more European and Europe has been becoming more American?

In the USA, there is a presidente who favors na welfare state. His most importante domestic policy was the universal health care. Changes could be faster if there were no Republican majority in the Congress.
Europe in known for being more secularista than the USA. However, christian fundamentalismo in the USA is declining.

On the other side of the North Atlantic, there are many conservative leaders, like Merkel, Cameron and Rajoy. Even socialist leaders like Hollande and Tsispiras do not have enough room for left-wing policies.
Income inequality in Europe did not increase like what happened in the USA during the Reagan era. However, income inequality in Europe has been growing nowadays. Labor markets are becoming more flexible.
After the euro crisis, there is increasing pressure to reduce the spending on the welfare states.

Cameron would be a democrat in this country

Only in social issues?

[buritobr]

On the other side of the North Atlantic, there are many conservative leaders, like Merkel, Cameron and Rajoy.

I wouldn't really describe Angela Merkel as "conservative" even in German/European context. She's more of a centrist, which means she would be a center-left politician in America. Her government did after all pass the first minimum wage law in the nation's history.

The AfD and the Pegida movement could be seen as German equivalents to the Tea Party though.

Why? Is Angela Merkel really a centrist or she is doing a centrist administration only because the Social Democrats are in the coalition?
Was the 2009-2013 administration during the black yellow coalition more "small government" than the 2005-2009 and 2013- administrations?

[Middle-aged Europe]

On the other side of the North Atlantic, there are many conservative leaders, like Merkel, Cameron and Rajoy.

I wouldn't really describe Angela Merkel as "conservative" even in German/European context. She's more of a centrist, which means she would be a center-left politician in America. Her government did after all pass the first minimum wage law in the nation's history.

The AfD and the Pegida movement could be seen as German equivalents to the Tea Party though.

Why? Is Angela Merkel really a centrist or she is doing a centrist administration only because the Social Democrats are in the coalition?
Was the 2009-2013 administration during the black yellow coalition more "small government" than the 2005-2009 and 2013- administrations?

No, Merkel could be seen as responsible for the CDU's overall move to the center in the last 10-15 years, much to the dismay of the conservatives within her own party and irrespective of the CDU's coalition partner.

There's an old story circulating about Merkel that when she looked for a political party to join shortly after the communist government had been overthrown back in East Germany, she first chose to attend a SPD meeting. But the fact that everyone called themselves "comrade" there, reminded her to much of the old regime. So, she eventually ended up with the Democratic Awakening, a small group of former dissidents for which she quickly become Press Secretary. The Democratic Awakening never really had any electoral successes (winning only 0.9% in the 1990 East German election) and was eventually swallowed by the CDU. And this how she became a CDU member.

As for FDP vs. SPD as coalition partners... well, the FDP certainly would have vetoed a minimum wage law. The point is, Merkel herself didn't veto a minimum wage law, even though the law itself was and still is criticized from within the ranks of her own party. She did veto (or let's rather say, she ignored) the FDP's calls for more tax cuts in her previous administration though.

Not that Merkel is said to have many ideological convictions personally... as described above, she's someone for whom it wouldn't have made much difference to join either the CDU or the SPD. For her, ruling from the center was always the safest bet that guarantees the most popularity and success.

[ingemann]

I don't think why it should be surprising, that Merkel didn't have any real ideology before the Wall fell. It wasn't like she lived in a society, where political discussion was really possible. Even in democraties we find people who choose party based on gut feeling and when either find they choose right or leave it later, and while she doesn't fit in the whole modern conservatives ideology of small state and letting the poor starve, conservatism have always been more than that, and honestly I have a hard time seeing  today's Merkel as member of any other German party.