NE1: Northeast Devolution Referendum Act, 2015

[cinyc]

This can't possibly be constitutional.

[Clyde1998]

This can't possibly be constitutional.

I believe that with the Consent of the Senate, which is what the bill proposes, we should be able to do this. The plan is, if this bill passes through this Assembly, for the Senate to debate it and for them to suggest amendments to it, if they feel it can't work in the form that we pass it on to them.

This bill should only become law if both legislative bodies pass an act on the subject.

[cinyc]

This can't possibly be constitutional.

I believe that with the Consent of the Senate, which is what the bill proposes, we should be able to do this. The plan is, if this bill passes through this Assembly, for the Senate to debate it and for them to suggest amendments to it, if they feel it can't work in the form that we pass it on to them.

This bill should only become law if both legislative bodies pass an act on the subject.

The Atlasian Constitution would have to be amended in order to give the Northeast some of the powers currently reserved to the Senate.  That simply cannot happen by a vote of Northeasterners alone.  And practically, I doubt the Senate will even take up this bill if passed.  But that's a separate issue.

[Clyde1998]

This can't possibly be constitutional.

I believe that with the Consent of the Senate, which is what the bill proposes, we should be able to do this. The plan is, if this bill passes through this Assembly, for the Senate to debate it and for them to suggest amendments to it, if they feel it can't work in the form that we pass it on to them.

This bill should only become law if both legislative bodies pass an act on the subject.

The Atlasian Constitution would have to be amended in order to give the Northeast some of the powers currently reserved to the Senate.  That simply cannot happen by a vote of Northeasterners alone.  And practically, I doubt the Senate will even take up this bill if passed.  But that's a separate issue.

I'd be very happy to expand this bill to give every region the same powers - and hold a national constitutional referendum on that.

I'll see what the Senate says about this bill tomorrow.

[Blair]

Well as I said before, in the current form I'd not be in favour of the Senate passing this. The best bet would be to as you said make this a national issue because then it's much easier to change

[pikachu]

I like the idea behind this, but I agree with cinyc on the constitutional concerns...

[Clyde1998]

I propose that we vote on this and send it to federal government to see what they say about the bill, so they can make their amendments. Unless anyone has any amendments they wish to propose before we vote on it.

If you do have any concerns about the constitutional position of this - a passing of this bill through the Northeast Assembly won't make this referendum bill active until the Federal Government approves of it.

[Dr. Cynic]

I'd like to hear about potential consequences of this from the GM's office. That would probably be the final straw on whether I actually support this going through or not. Is it feasible?

[Clyde1998]

I'd like to hear about potential consequences of this from the GM's office. That would probably be the final straw on whether I actually support this going through or not. Is it feasible?

I'll PM the GM and see what he says before we vote on this.

[Prince of Salem]

I absolutely love the idea behind this, but I agree with cinyc on the constitutional concerns...

[Clyde1998]

I'd like to hear about potential consequences of this from the GM's office. That would probably be the final straw on whether I actually support this going through or not. Is it feasible?

I'll PM the GM and see what he says before we vote on this.

I haven't got a response... I'll put something in the GM thread...

[Clyde1998]

It doesn't seem that we're going to get a response from the GM at this time.

I propose closing the debate - if everyone's happy with that. Then we can vote on this bill and send it to the Federal Government, if it's successful, to see what they make of this bill.

[DKrol]

I was going to give the GM a final 24 hours to respond before ending debate.

[Clyde1998]

I was going to give the GM a final 24 hours to respond before ending debate.

That's okay.

[Dr. Cynic]

It doesn't seem that we're going to get a response from the GM at this time.

I propose closing the debate - if everyone's happy with that. Then we can vote on this bill and send it to the Federal Government, if it's successful, to see what they make of this bill.

I won't vote to pass this without some kind of idea about what the hell would happen if it did.

[DKrol]

Kal has had 5 days since Clyde first reached out to him. We can't hold up the Assembly forever. 48 hour vote.

Nay, due to the lack of a response from the GM.

[Clyde1998]

Aye - Let's send this to the Federal Government and see what they make of it. The bill can't become active without their permission.

[Dr. Cynic]

Nay

I simply can't give the go ahead at this time.

[pikachu]

Nay, but I think it's worth exploring again at a later time (with more help from the GM).

[Clyde1998]

This will fail now - but are people saying "I support this, but we need more of a confirmation on what the impact of this would be"? I sense that the assembly supports this in principle, but aren't happy to vote for it at this time - due to lack of information on what would happen.

If that's the case - I'll definitely want to iron out the creases and approach this again at a later date.

[bore]

Just to butt in here, cinyc is right that this, at the moment, is not constitutional, or, rather, you're asking  the federal government to do something it can not, constitutionally do.

Currently, the constitution gives certain powers to the senate which the senate can fully legislate on, and, implicitly, and backed up by a large amount of precedent from the supreme court, everything not mentioned there is given to the regions to legislate on. On those matters the senate can pass bills, but the regions can not be forced to do anything by those bills, so a bill on, say, polygamy could pass the senate giving financial support for them, but no region would be obligated to adjust it's laws on it or accept the money.

Or, as the constitution puts it:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Now, no matter how many people vote for a referendum which gives the northeast certain powers specifically listed under the powers of the senate, if the northeast were then to pass a law in one of those areas that would be illegal and, actually liable for prosecution, because the constitution still delegates those powers to the senate and there are federal laws on those subjects, so contradicting them would break the supremacy clause.

The only way to get more powers for the northeast would be to amend the powers given to the senate in the constitution.

[Clyde1998]

Just to butt in here, cinyc is right that this, at the moment, is not constitutional, or, rather, you're asking  the federal government to do something it can not, constitutionally do.

Currently, the constitution gives certain powers to the senate which the senate can fully legislate on, and, implicitly, and backed up by a large amount of precedent from the supreme court, everything not mentioned there is given to the regions to legislate on. On those matters the senate can pass bills, but the regions can not be forced to do anything by those bills, so a bill on, say, polygamy could pass the senate giving financial support for them, but no region would be obligated to adjust it's laws on it or accept the money.

Or, as the constitution puts it:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Now, no matter how many people vote for a referendum which gives the northeast certain powers specifically listed under the powers of the senate, if the northeast were then to pass a law in one of those areas that would be illegal and, actually liable for prosecution, because the constitution still delegates those powers to the senate and there are federal laws on those subjects, so contradicting them would break the supremacy clause.

The only way to get more powers for the northeast would be to amend the powers given to the senate in the constitution.

I was sort of hoping that this would cause an increase of power for all of the regions, to ensure that it would only be a minor constitutional amendment, meaning that the Northeast wouldn't have any powers that the other regions don't have and that it's legal.

I proposed it in the assembly as there is strong demand for additional powers in the Northeast. If it passed in this Assembly, it would have to be sent to the Senate to make amendments to the bill. This would have given the Senate the opportunity to have an across the board increase of regional powers.

[bore]

It seems to me, the best way to achieve this would be an assembly resolution asking for more powers, then lobbying the senate to pass such an amendment.

[Clyde1998]

It seems to me, the best way to achieve this would be an assembly resolution asking for more powers, then lobbying the senate to pass such an amendment.

I'll look into this. I wasn't aware it could be done that way.

[DKrol]

Fails.