Once more, gun control opponents...

[Mr. Reactionary]

This was a weird post.

You accuse me of being overly statist when you advocate the PATRIOT Act? Seriously?

Lolz ... I was being tongue in cheek which is why I edited YOUR quote as opposed to typing out my own. I was attempting to point out that the argument you made is the exact same spiel Rudy Giuliani and other Republicans used to justify violating the 4th Amendment.

Lol, sorry. It's hard to discern tone through the computer. You can't see the expression on someone's face to make it clear they're not being serious.

The only difference here is that you think muh gunz is different.

As an aside I don't want you to think Im harboring ill feelings towards you ... but I do get irked when people pretend that rights are merely an allowance of the government that can be ignored at will just because blood dancers appear to love to exploit dead children for political capital. The 2nd Amendment is every bit as much of the Bill of Rights as the 4th.

Of course, but I think gun ownership should be a privilege reserved for those who are responsible. Guns are very powerful tools and they should be used with great caution. I think we need to have reasonable regulations to prevent the wrong kind of people from getting a gun. I support the 2nd Amendment just as much as the next guy, but when shootings like this continue to occur, it becomes clear we need to act.

And BTW I know you don't harbor ill feelings, but I get irked when people seem to not want to take action on this.

Good to know. Yeah, at this point I'd say depriving someone of their 2nd Amendment liberty at the conclusion of due process like say a felony trial or formal determination of mental incompetence by a judge with subsequent opportunities for reversal is consistent with the bill of rights, but I'd say most other proposals aren't (nor are they effective) absent an amendment. Ditto for the other first 8 Amendments.

[WVdemocrat]

This was a weird post.

You accuse me of being overly statist when you advocate the PATRIOT Act? Seriously?

Lolz ... I was being tongue in cheek which is why I edited YOUR quote as opposed to typing out my own. I was attempting to point out that the argument you made is the exact same spiel Rudy Giuliani and other Republicans used to justify violating the 4th Amendment.

Lol, sorry. It's hard to discern tone through the computer. You can't see the expression on someone's face to make it clear they're not being serious.

The only difference here is that you think muh gunz is different.

As an aside I don't want you to think Im harboring ill feelings towards you ... but I do get irked when people pretend that rights are merely an allowance of the government that can be ignored at will just because blood dancers appear to love to exploit dead children for political capital. The 2nd Amendment is every bit as much of the Bill of Rights as the 4th.

Of course, but I think gun ownership should be a privilege reserved for those who are responsible. Guns are very powerful tools and they should be used with great caution. I think we need to have reasonable regulations to prevent the wrong kind of people from getting a gun. I support the 2nd Amendment just as much as the next guy, but when shootings like this continue to occur, it becomes clear we need to act.

And BTW I know you don't harbor ill feelings, but I get irked when people seem to not want to take action on this.

Good to know. Yeah, at this point I'd say depriving someone of their 2nd Amendment liberty at the conclusion of due process like say a felony trial or formal determination of mental incompetence by a judge with subsequent opportunities for reversal is consistent with the bill of rights, but I'd say most other proposals aren't (nor are they effective) absent an amendment. Ditto for the other first 8 Amendments.

Well, at least we've found some common ground.

We can agree to disagree on the rest.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Number of tough guys on the internet who believe that more people should have guns in order to prevent gun violence: A gazillion


Number of said tough guys who actually have the balls (or is retarded enough) to carry a gun out in the open and be one of those people:

...............

[Free Bird]

Number of tough guys on the internet who believe that more people should have guns in order to prevent gun violence: A gazillion


Number of said tough guys who actually have the balls (or is retarded enough) to carry a gun out in the open and be one of those people:

...............

And how may you know this? It is proven that areas with more civilian guns have lower crime rates.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Number of tough guys on the internet who believe that more people should have guns in order to prevent gun violence: A gazillion


Number of said tough guys who actually have the balls (or is retarded enough) to carry a gun out in the open and be one of those people:

...............

And how may you know this? It is proven that areas with more civilian guns have lower crime rates.

Are you one of those people who openly carries a gun into a public place? 

[Free Bird]

Number of tough guys on the internet who believe that more people should have guns in order to prevent gun violence: A gazillion


Number of said tough guys who actually have the balls (or is retarded enough) to carry a gun out in the open and be one of those people:

...............

And how may you know this? It is proven that areas with more civilian guns have lower crime rates.

Are you one of those people who openly carries a gun into a public place? 

Don't have a Maine permit yet

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Number of tough guys on the internet who believe that more people should have guns in order to prevent gun violence: A gazillion


Number of said tough guys who actually have the balls (or is retarded enough) to carry a gun out in the open and be one of those people:

...............

And how may you know this? It is proven that areas with more civilian guns have lower crime rates.

Are you one of those people who openly carries a gun into a public place?  

Don't have a Maine permit yet

Ahhhhh.  But when you do, you'll carry that gun wherever you go?

[Mr. Reactionary]

How dare you cowardly exercise your 1st Amendment rights on the internet under a username. A real hyper-masculine guy would walk around in public shouting their viewpoints while wearing a shirt with their full name, address, and list of fears on it.

For real though, how someone chooses to exercise their lawful rights is their business. Open Carry or Concealed. Different situations call for different tactics.

[ag]

Number of tough guys on the internet who believe that more people should have guns in order to prevent gun violence: A gazillion


Number of said tough guys who actually have the balls (or is retarded enough) to carry a gun out in the open and be one of those people:

...............

And how may you know this? It is proven that areas with more civilian guns have lower crime rates.

Repeating it many times does not make it a proof.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Number of tough guys on the internet who believe that more people should have guns in order to prevent gun violence: A gazillion


Number of said tough guys who actually have the balls (or is retarded enough) to carry a gun out in the open and be one of those people:

...............

And how may you know this? It is proven that areas with more civilian guns have lower crime rates.

Repeating it many times does not make it a proof.

Yes look at all those Southern States, with their strict gun laws!  Damn Democrats!  

[Free Bird]

Number of tough guys on the internet who believe that more people should have guns in order to prevent gun violence: A gazillion


Number of said tough guys who actually have the balls (or is retarded enough) to carry a gun out in the open and be one of those people:

...............

And how may you know this? It is proven that areas with more civilian guns have lower crime rates.

Repeating it many times does not make it a proof.

Yes look at all those Southern States, with their strict gun laws!  Damn Democrats!  

This is not a fair analysis. The rates are concentrated in urban areas, which all of these red states do indeed have. It isn't fair to say that New Orleans' murder rate represents all of Louisiana, etc

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Has anybody read that study where they showed capital punishment supporters and opponents various doctored pieces of data, and simply showed that everybody vociferously attacked any data opposing their POV, while accepting wholesale supportive evidence?

The gun control debate is like that. Because both sides start from emotional basis, the stats are largely irrelevant. both sides argue at cross purposes so we get ridiculous threads like this one.

[ag]

Number of tough guys on the internet who believe that more people should have guns in order to prevent gun violence: A gazillion


Number of said tough guys who actually have the balls (or is retarded enough) to carry a gun out in the open and be one of those people:

...............

And how may you know this? It is proven that areas with more civilian guns have lower crime rates.

Repeating it many times does not make it a proof.

Yes look at all those Southern States, with their strict gun laws!  Damn Democrats!  

This is not a fair analysis. The rates are concentrated in urban areas, which all of these red states do indeed have. It isn't fair to say that New Orleans' murder rate represents all of Louisiana, etc

I know. Oklahoma is cursed with the gigantic urban nightmares of Oklahoma City, Tulsa, and, god forbid, Norman. How can it compete with a rural states like New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey?

[bgwah]

What kind of color scales goes yellow-red-green?

[bedstuy]

And how may you know this? It is proven that areas with more civilian guns have lower crime rates.

No. 

[Iosif]

Ban all guns. Just like the rest of the world.

The American fixation with guns is weird.

Yeah!  the Second Amendment and the spirit this country was founded upon! Banning something will make them all go away! Ask the drug cartels!

America was founded in the spirit of guns. That is some first class delusion.

Strict restrictions on firearms is not a strange or impossible concept. It's in place and very successful in virtually every country in the world.

Your second point is more ludicrous than your first, remarkably. Very well done.

[Rockefeller GOP]

If you think more gun control will stop demented people and criminals from acquiring guns and carrying out acts of terror, you're just being naive.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Number of tough guys on the internet who believe that more people should have guns in order to prevent gun violence: A gazillion


Number of said tough guys who actually have the balls (or is retarded enough) to carry a gun out in the open and be one of those people:

...............

And how may you know this? It is proven that areas with more civilian guns have lower crime rates.

Are you one of those people who openly carries a gun into a public place?  

Don't have a Maine permit yet

Ahhhhh.  But when you do, you'll carry that gun wherever you go?

Still waiting for a response. 

[SteveRogers]

If you think more gun control will stop demented people and criminals from acquiring guns and carrying out acts of terror, you're just being naive.

Can you explain to me how this argument doesn't apply to literally every law ever?

[WVdemocrat]

If you think more gun control will stop demented people and criminals from acquiring guns and carrying out acts of terror, you're just being naive.

Can you explain to me how this argument doesn't apply to literally every law ever?

Exactly. So should we just give up on government altogether, Rocky?

Are none of the anti-gun control people paying attention to this map?

[Rockefeller GOP]

That's a terrible comeback to my claim, IMO.  The difference is that gun control actively represses a Constitutional right of law-abiding citizens and doesn't accomplish its stated goal either.  I should be able to have a gun in my home to defend against possible home invasion, and that right should not be affected by whatever a racist psycho decided to do, no matter how horrible it was.

We can't just disregard Constitutional rights on impulsive desires to "fix" things.  It'd probably be better if everyone had to prove their identity before they voted, no?  It'd cut down on voter fraud.  However, purchasing an ID as a requirement to vote really is a form of poll tax, so we don't affect everyone's right to vote based on isolated incidents.

[WVdemocrat]

That's a terrible comeback to my claim, IMO.  The difference is that gun control actively represses a Constitutional right of law-abiding citizens and doesn't accomplish its stated goal either.  I should be able to have a gun in my home to defend against possible home invasion, and that right should not be affected by whatever a racist psycho decided to do, no matter how horrible it was.

We can't just disregard Constitutional rights on impulsive desires to "fix" things.  It'd probably be better if everyone had to prove their identity before they voted, no?  It'd cut down on voter fraud.  However, purchasing an ID as a requirement to vote really is a form of poll tax, so we don't affect everyone's right to vote based on isolated incidents.

But we then don't give up on fighting voter fraud.

That's the point.

You're acting like I want all guns to be banned. Nobody is saying that, so enough with that nonsense BS argument that gun control somehow violates the Constitution.

We're not talking about taking away all guns. You have the right to defend your home, you have the right to hunt, and collect, and whatever the hell else you want to do with your guns other than kill people. Common sense gun control does not infringe on the rights of citizens, it is simply meant to keep guns out of the hands of people who intend to do bad things with them.

And, again, I defer you to this map.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I think this Australian comedian says it better than anyone about the gun nuts and about how Australia dealt with the problem of mass shootings.

https://youtu.be/lL8JEEt2RxI

[WVdemocrat]

He actually makes very compelling arguments. If only the NRA and the gun nuts in America would realize the logic in it.

[bedstuy]

That's a terrible comeback to my claim, IMO.  The difference is that gun control actively represses a Constitutional right of law-abiding citizens and doesn't accomplish its stated goal either.  I should be able to have a gun in my home to defend against possible home invasion, and that right should not be affected by whatever a racist psycho decided to do, no matter how horrible it was.

We can't just disregard Constitutional rights on impulsive desires to "fix" things.  It'd probably be better if everyone had to prove their identity before they voted, no?  It'd cut down on voter fraud.  However, purchasing an ID as a requirement to vote really is a form of poll tax, so we don't affect everyone's right to vote based on isolated incidents.

You're looking at this wrong.

Do you support legalizing ALL arms for the general public?  Sarin gas, nuclear weapons, machine guns,  bombs, rocket propelled grenades, etc.  That would be limiting our right to bare arms to the minimal extent. 

But, that's ridiculous, because it's too dangerous to allow people to own things like truck bombs and chemical weapons.  So, we impose limits and regulations.

We've imposed a variety of limits on guns, background checks, gun bans on certain models, etc.  Some of those limits have worked really well.  For example, the homicide rate in the US plummeted after the implementation of the Brady Bill in 1994.  Other regulations don't seem to have made a huge difference like the Assault Weapons ban. 

But, that's the proper debate.  How do, while respecting the 2nd Amendment's limits, allow both gun ownership and increase public safety?  It's not "Ban all guns!" or "allow all weapons!"  There's a nuanced debate to be had about what measures work and what role responsible gun owners have in enjoying a hobby without endangering lives.