Once more, gun control opponents...

[Free Bird]

Why do our deaths from gun violence outpace those of any other developed, stable country? If guns aren't the problem, what is the problem and how do you intend to fix that problem?

Violent crime has steadily declined over the years. It is at an ALL TIME LOW. We too are developed and stable. The problem is really concentrated in urban areas, which we can solve by giving them more opportunities with job training programs and better schools. Criminal background check improvement, sure, but really we should focus on improving urban areas/states, which by the way, HAVE STRICTER GUN LAWS THAN PEACEFUL STATES WITH LESS CRIME!

[Free Bird]

Oh, by the way. How will more gun control punish criminals? They won't care, and I feel that gun crime will INCREASE as a result of civilians not having guns anymore.

[Free Bird]

and I feel,,,

It is not the matter of feelings...

Bad choice of words. I KNOW it will. People without guns are easy targets to criminals WITH guns. Refer to urban areas with high crime rates yet strict gun control. And you liberals are NOT ones to call out people for thinking with feelings.

[Free Bird]

Oh, by the way. How will more gun control punish criminals? They won't care, and I feel that gun crime will INCREASE as a result of civilians not having guns anymore.

It will make it harder for them to acquire guns. That's the whole point. They don't call it gun control for nothing.

Background checks are fine I said. But an outright ban on anything to punish everyone is not only unconstitutional, but also ineffective. Refer to Columbine.

[Free Bird]

Vermont, this forum's favorite state, has some of the laxest gun laws, but also some of the lowest crime, even when compared to the low national aggregate. Why? Because they have good social safety nets, good schools, and not any huge urban areas where people are packed in like sardines. I forgot to mention that the gun crime statistics, even now, are inflated because they include sucides and self defenses. Isn't that just the tiniest bit dishonest?

[Free Bird]

People without guns are easy targets to criminals WITH guns.

If everybody's armed, then that's not peace, that's stability (which is surprisingly unstable).

That creates a state of fear, not safe communities.

Yeah. A fear of doing bad stuff because you know you're going to be shot! So you suggest we violate the Second Amendment, confiscate all weapons, and make people completely defenseless from threats? With this issue, you can't really have a middle ground.

[Free Bird]

As far as I am concerned, any person carrying a gun is a clear and present danger to my own life and that of my family. Firstly, because s/he has a gun. And, secondly, because wanting to have a gun is likely to be a sign of being a dangerous lunatic in the first place.

And yet you're probably fine with police having INKSing tanks and bazookas. People have a right to own guns, period. Calling everyone that likes them insane is despicable. Maybe they like hunting or target shooting! Who knows!?

[Free Bird]

Oh, by the way. How will more gun control punish criminals? They won't care, and I feel that gun crime will INCREASE as a result of civilians not having guns anymore.

As if there are two groups of people:  Criminals and non-criminal.  Like the world is a children's cartoon with the bad guys and the good guys.

Every criminal was a non-criminal until they committed a crime.

Sure, we could cut down crime a lot if we totally eliminated poverty and social problems in poor communities.  It's not going to happen any time soon and people shouldn't die in the meantime.  And, the NRA and Republican don't want to do anything to help poor black communities anyway.  They want to screw them over more!

Here are a few evident facts:

Guns are a more effective weapon than knives.

Decreasing the access to guns among the general public would make it more difficult to kill/injure people with guns.  

Guns in the hands of the public cause way more crime than they prevent.

You could decrease access to guns with a number of measures.   Gun-buyback programs, registration and licensing programs, mandatory background checks.  Or, what about a 25% excise tax on guns?  If you increase the price of a good, it's going to affect sales.  

Ummm, guns are a distant third in crime instruments behind blunt instruments and bare hands. I don't think people want to ban those.

[Free Bird]

As far as I am concerned, any person carrying a gun is a clear and present danger to my own life and that of my family. Firstly, because s/he has a gun. And, secondly, because wanting to have a gun is likely to be a sign of being a dangerous lunatic in the first place.

And yet you're probably fine with police having INKSing tanks and bazookas.

And you are, probably, fine with New York being nuked, aren't you?

How the  did that come from Joe Bob across the street owning a Glock?

[Free Bird]

People without guns are easy targets to criminals WITH guns.

If everybody's armed, then that's not peace, that's stability (which is surprisingly unstable).

That creates a state of fear, not safe communities.

Yeah. A fear of doing bad stuff because you know you're going to be shot!

No, more like a fear of going to Starbucks for a coffee, because you know, you are goint to be shot!

Ummm, if you open carry, then you're obviously not intended to surprise people and shoot them up! Are you idiots really that paranoid?

[Free Bird]

People without guns are easy targets to criminals WITH guns.

If everybody's armed, then that's not peace, that's stability (which is surprisingly unstable).

That creates a state of fear, not safe communities.

Yeah. A fear of doing bad stuff because you know you're going to be shot!

No, more like a fear of going to Starbucks for a coffee, because you know, you are goint to be shot!

Ummm, if you open carry, then you're obviously not intended to surprise people and shoot them up! Are you idiots really that paranoid?

You may have had no intention when you left home, but then you might not like how I look or talk. Who knows what is there on a lunatic's mind?

Paranoia at its finest

[Free Bird]

People without guns are easy targets to criminals WITH guns.

If everybody's armed, then that's not peace, that's stability (which is surprisingly unstable).

That creates a state of fear, not safe communities.

Yeah. A fear of doing bad stuff because you know you're going to be shot!

No, a fear of pissing off some aggressive lunatic with a gun who has no qualms about shooting you.

So you suggest we violate the Second Amendment, confiscate all weapons, and make people completely defenseless from threats?

I never said that. I don't support confiscating all guns and rolling back the Second Amendment. But, what should be added to the Bill of Rights is the right to living in a safe community. There are people shooting up malls and schools and churches. People are dying, and you're sticking to rigid ideology. We can't play political football with this anymore, people are being cut down in churches. In schools, small children are being killed in droves.

This is lunacy. It needs to stop.

Safe communities have a well armed people. Urban areas where this crime mainly happens have a multitude of issues, the least of which are strict gun laws that prevent people from stopping these heinous acts!

[Free Bird]

People without guns are easy targets to criminals WITH guns.

If everybody's armed, then that's not peace, that's stability (which is surprisingly unstable).

That creates a state of fear, not safe communities.

Yeah. A fear of doing bad stuff because you know you're going to be shot!

No, more like a fear of going to Starbucks for a coffee, because you know, you are goint to be shot!

Ummm, if you open carry, then you're obviously not intended to surprise people and shoot them up! Are you idiots really that paranoid?

You may have had no intention when you left home, but then you might not like how I look or talk. Who knows what is there on a lunatic's mind?

Paranoia at its finest

That is also what the people in that Charleston Church thougt.

How dare you use such a tragedy to further a political agenda before the bodies are even cold. The shooter was insane, racist, and got his weapon illegally from his father. And it was a handgun, which only idiots want to ban.

[Free Bird]

And where pray tell do these crimes happen?

[Free Bird]

I honestly find your stigma on gun owners personally insulting. My entire family owns weapons. None of us have a criminal background, and none of us are insane.

[Free Bird]

And where pray tell do these crimes happen?

Wherever there is an armed guy who decides to use his gun.

Cough cough where people can't defend themselves.

[Free Bird]

I honestly find your stigma on gun owners personally insulting. My entire family owns weapons. None of us have a criminal background, and none of us are insane.

You are pretty damn crazy, for starters.

There's a difference between ideology and clinical insanity.

[Free Bird]

and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

What are you even talking about? We'd know by now! To answer the war statement. Those are deliberately made to kill. Firefights from people that want to kill each other will do that!

[Free Bird]

I honestly find your stigma on gun owners personally insulting. My entire family owns weapons. None of us have a criminal background, and none of us are insane.

People who have no criminal history and who pass the proper mental health exams have the right to bear arms. Nobody is saying they don't.

Ag seems to be. As I said, I support background check expansions!

[Free Bird]

and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

What the f uck are you even talking about? We'd know by now! To answer the war statement. Those are deliberately made to kill. Firefights from people that want to kill each other will do that!

And there are guns that are not made to kill?

All guns are designed to kill. But that does not mean everyone that owns one is going to shoot up a preschool.  

[Free Bird]

and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

What the f uck are you even talking about? We'd know by now!

That is a very strong statement to make about oneself. I would never clame I am sane - how the hell would I know?

And, in any case, you might still need an insanity defense next time you use your gun, you know.

And how will I know that my dog won't maul someone? We must ban dogs!

[Free Bird]

So you suggest we violate the Second Amendment, confiscate all weapons, and make people completely defenseless from threats?

I never said that. I don't support confiscating all guns and rolling back the Second Amendment. But, what should be added to the Bill of Rights is the right to living in a safe community. There are people shooting up malls and schools and churches. People are dying, and you're sticking to rigid ideology. We can't play political football with this anymore, people are being cut down in churches. In schools, small children are being killed in droves.

This is lunacy. It needs to stop.

This thread badly needs some context:

If you'll notice, the steep decline begins in 1994, when (surprise, surprise) the Assault Weapons Ban was signed into law.

And continues to decline after it ends! I'll be!

[Free Bird]

Brady is reasonable

[Free Bird]

Okay. Let's settle this. Every anti gun person here besides ag who is paranoid. What do you propose we do in terms of gun laws? At this point we are arguing in circles.

[Free Bird]

Okay. Let's settle this. Every anti gun person here besides ag who is paranoid. What do you propose we do in terms of gun laws? At this point we are arguing in circles.

Off the top of my head.

Close the loopholes to make sure all non-antique guns are purchased with a background check.

Gun-buyback programs in inner-cities

Create new penalties and regulations on straw purchases.

Civil Liability for straw purchasers and/or improperly selling a gun used in a crime.

An excise tax on firearms to pay for gun-buybacks, community policing and other crime prevention programs.

Repeal DC v. Heller

All but the last are completely reasonable. They don't infringe on the right of the people to bear arms