Once more, gun control opponents...

[Frodo]

So you suggest we violate the Second Amendment, confiscate all weapons, and make people completely defenseless from threats?

I never said that. I don't support confiscating all guns and rolling back the Second Amendment. But, what should be added to the Bill of Rights is the right to living in a safe community. There are people shooting up malls and schools and churches. People are dying, and you're sticking to rigid ideology. We can't play political football with this anymore, people are being cut down in churches. In schools, small children are being killed in droves.

This is lunacy. It needs to stop.

This thread badly needs some context:





That said, there needs to be a mindset change among gun rights advocates, particularly the absolutists who abhor any gun control of any sort.  

[Frodo]

So you suggest we violate the Second Amendment, confiscate all weapons, and make people completely defenseless from threats?

I never said that. I don't support confiscating all guns and rolling back the Second Amendment. But, what should be added to the Bill of Rights is the right to living in a safe community. There are people shooting up malls and schools and churches. People are dying, and you're sticking to rigid ideology. We can't play political football with this anymore, people are being cut down in churches. In schools, small children are being killed in droves.

This is lunacy. It needs to stop.

This thread badly needs some context:

If you'll notice, the steep decline begins in 1994, when (surprise, surprise) the Assault Weapons Ban was signed into law.

Or, more importantly, the Brady Crime Bill went into effect in 1994.

Coupled with declining exposure of children to lead-poisoning and an ageing population. 

[Frodo]

Also, politicians pay close attention to their constituents.  If we see a repeat of this in coming weeks:



there is no point in pushing for gun control.  Let alone amending the Second Amendment.    

[Frodo]

Okay. Let's settle this. Every anti gun person here besides ag who is paranoid. What do you propose we do in terms of gun laws? At this point we are arguing in circles.

Off the top of my head.

Close the loopholes to make sure all non-antique guns are purchased with a background check.

Gun-buyback programs in inner-cities

Create new penalties and regulations on straw purchases.

Civil Liability for straw purchasers and/or improperly selling a gun used in a crime.

An excise tax on firearms to pay for gun-buybacks, community policing and other crime prevention programs.

Repeal DC v. Heller

Everything bedstuy just said, plus....

-Expand background checks
-Mental health exams
-Re-instate the Assault Weapons Ban
-Invest in smart gun technology
-Require gun training classes for first time gun purchasers

With the notable exceptions of reinstating the Assault Weapons Ban, and overturning the DC vs. Heller court ruling (which I would never stand for), all these sound perfectly reasonable.  

[Frodo]

Also, politicians pay close attention to their constituents.  If we see a repeat of this in coming weeks:



there is no point in pushing for gun control.  Let alone amending the Second Amendment.    

There is a point in pushing for gun control as long as people continue to die on this scale from gun violence. We must act. Enough with this libertarian nonsense about fearing tyranny from the government. This isn't tyranny, this is public safety.

BTW that graph shows a very small spike after Newtown. If that's what your point was.

The long-term trend has been towards less support for gun control, not more.

Let's not cling to straws here.  

[Frodo]

You can talk about trying to change people's hearts and minds on an issue all you like -the crux of the matter is that for decades we have been conditioned to think that if government cannot be trusted to spend our tax dollars responsibly, how can we trust it (in the form of law enforcement and gun regulations) to protect us?  The issues may seem separate, but they are not.  It is no coincidence that the highest spike for gun control (and even a gun ban) was during the 1950s when trust in government was at its highest.  

Until you deal with that underlying distrust of government, any push for gun control (and other liberal/progressive objectives) won't get anywhere on a lasting basis.  

[Frodo]

Most gun control laws are ultimately going to be ineffective due to the proliferation of guns under the complete failure of existing and previous gun laws. A repeal (or MAJOR change) to the second amendment is required to cease and reverse this dangerous proliferation.

Good luck with that.

[Frodo]

You can talk about trying to change people's hearts and minds on an issue all you like -the crux of the matter is that for decades we have been conditioned to think that if government cannot be trusted to spend our tax dollars responsibly, how can we trust it (in the form of law enforcement and gun regulations) to protect us?  The issues may seem separate, but they are not.  It is no coincidence that the highest spike for gun control (and even a gun ban) was during the 1950s when trust in government was at its highest.  

Until you deal with that underlying distrust of government, any push for gun control (and other liberal/progressive objectives) won't get anywhere on a lasting basis.  

I agree there is a problem, but how exactly do you figure we deal with that distrust in government?

Very good question, and one I don't have an answer for except to say that President Obama's signature legislation (the Affordable Care Act) is far more significant to your hopes and dreams than you think.  Assuming the Supreme Court lets those subsidies go through (a very big 'if'), we should hope and pray that the execution of that legislation proceeds with as few bumps in the road as possible from then on.   

[Frodo]

Can't we all agree that it will be largely impossible to restrict gun ownership and there are probably better things to spend political capital on; while simultaneously agreeing that if you own guns you're probably a creepy psycho?

.........

You are ignorant. I know plenty of gun owners, and none fit your stereotype.