Once more, gun control opponents...

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and I feel,,,

It is not the matter of feelings...

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and I feel,,,

It is not the matter of feelings...

Bad choice of words. I KNOW it will.

Well, you also KNOW it was Santa who brought you that gun.

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Vermont, this forum's favorite state, has some of the laxest gun laws, but also some of the lowest crime,

And pretty middling gun ownership rates (despite the lax gun laws). One can have lax pork inspection rules in an ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, you know.

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As far as I am concerned, any person carrying a gun is a clear and present danger to my own life and that of my family. Firstly, because s/he has a gun. And, secondly, because wanting to have a gun is likely to be a sign of being a dangerous lunatic in the first place.

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People without guns are easy targets to criminals WITH guns.

If everybody's armed, then that's not peace, that's stability (which is surprisingly unstable).

That creates a state of fear, not safe communities.

Yeah. A fear of doing bad stuff because you know you're going to be shot!

No, more like a fear of going to Starbucks for a coffee, because you know, you are goint to be shot!

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. And you liberals are NOT ones to call out people for thinking with feelings.

I do not know, whether I am a "liberal" in the American sense of the word (I would need an evaluation from other here ), but at least I am thinking with something

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As far as I am concerned, any person carrying a gun is a clear and present danger to my own life and that of my family. Firstly, because s/he has a gun. And, secondly, because wanting to have a gun is likely to be a sign of being a dangerous lunatic in the first place.

And yet you're probably fine with police having INKSing tanks and bazookas.

And you are, probably, fine with New York being nuked, aren't you?

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And yet you're probably fine with police having INKSing tanks and bazookas. People have a right to own guns, period. Calling everyone that likes them insane is despicable. Maybe they like hunting or target shooting! Who knows!?

May be. And some might just enjoy them for their artistic beauty? Just go to the Met - they have a whole gallery. Then, again, the art lovers (and even hunters or target shooters) have no need to carry the guns with them to a supermarket - still less, to conceal them.

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People without guns are easy targets to criminals WITH guns.

If everybody's armed, then that's not peace, that's stability (which is surprisingly unstable).

That creates a state of fear, not safe communities.

Yeah. A fear of doing bad stuff because you know you're going to be shot!

No, more like a fear of going to Starbucks for a coffee, because you know, you are goint to be shot!

Ummm, if you open carry, then you're obviously not intended to surprise people and shoot them up! Are you idiots really that paranoid?

You may have had no intention when you left home, but then you might not like how I look or talk. Who knows what is there on a lunatic's mind?

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As far as I am concerned, any person carrying a gun is a clear and present danger to my own life and that of my family. Firstly, because s/he has a gun. And, secondly, because wanting to have a gun is likely to be a sign of being a dangerous lunatic in the first place.

And yet you're probably fine with police having INKSing tanks and bazookas.

And you are, probably, fine with New York being nuked, aren't you?

How the  did that come from Joe Bob across the street owning a Glock?

From the same garbage bin you got your bazookas from.

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People without guns are easy targets to criminals WITH guns.

If everybody's armed, then that's not peace, that's stability (which is surprisingly unstable).

That creates a state of fear, not safe communities.

Yeah. A fear of doing bad stuff because you know you're going to be shot!

No, more like a fear of going to Starbucks for a coffee, because you know, you are goint to be shot!

Ummm, if you open carry, then you're obviously not intended to surprise people and shoot them up! Are you idiots really that paranoid?

You may have had no intention when you left home, but then you might not like how I look or talk. Who knows what is there on a lunatic's mind?

Paranoia at its finest

That is also what the people in that Charleston Church thougt.

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Calling everyone that likes them insane is despicable.

I sincerely hope there is no one who likes guns.

You can use guns to hunt, or in home defense, but I don't think anybody likes guns. That is sick.

I am afraid you are very wrong on this one.

Anyway, even in my book there is nothing wrong with liking a beautiful antique gun. As long as it is unloaded (and, hopefully, permanently disabled).

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People without guns are easy targets to criminals WITH guns.

If everybody's armed, then that's not peace, that's stability (which is surprisingly unstable).

That creates a state of fear, not safe communities.

Yeah. A fear of doing bad stuff because you know you're going to be shot!

No, a fear of pissing off some aggressive lunatic with a gun who has no qualms about shooting you.

So you suggest we violate the Second Amendment, confiscate all weapons, and make people completely defenseless from threats?

I never said that. I don't support confiscating all guns and rolling back the Second Amendment. But, what should be added to the Bill of Rights is the right to living in a safe community. There are people shooting up malls and schools and churches. People are dying, and you're sticking to rigid ideology. We can't play political football with this anymore, people are being cut down in churches. In schools, small children are being killed in droves.

This is lunacy. It needs to stop.

Safe communities have a well armed people. Urban areas where this crime mainly happens have a multitude of issues, the least of which are strict gun laws that prevent people from stopping these heinous acts!

Any community with well-armed people is, by my definition, dangerous.

You know what Chekhov once said? If in the first Act of a play there is a gun hanging on a wall, it will shoot in the last Act. Silent guns will, at some point, start shooting.

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People without guns are easy targets to criminals WITH guns.

If everybody's armed, then that's not peace, that's stability (which is surprisingly unstable).

That creates a state of fear, not safe communities.

Yeah. A fear of doing bad stuff because you know you're going to be shot!

No, more like a fear of going to Starbucks for a coffee, because you know, you are goint to be shot!

Ummm, if you open carry, then you're obviously not intended to surprise people and shoot them up! Are you idiots really that paranoid?

You may have had no intention when you left home, but then you might not like how I look or talk. Who knows what is there on a lunatic's mind?

Paranoia at its finest

That is also what the people in that Charleston Church thougt.

How dare you use such a tragedy to further a political agenda before the bodies are even cold. The shooter was insane, racist, and got his weapon illegally from his father. And it was a handgun, which only idiots want to ban.

I have no political agenda whatsoever. But there is a strong correlation between owning a gun and being an insane racist. Calling a spade a spade is no political agenda

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Calling everyone that likes them insane is despicable.

I sincerely hope there is no one who likes guns.

You can use guns to hunt, or in home defense, but I don't think anybody likes guns. That is sick.

I am afraid you are very wrong on this one.

Anyway, even in my book there is nothing wrong with liking a beautiful antique gun. As long as it is unloaded (and, hopefully, permanently disabled).

That's different. That is a collector's piece. And what I meant is that people can think guns are useful tools, but to like them or have some fascination with them...I don't know about that.

Well, it is an empirically observed fact: there are many people who not merely like them, but love them. Sometimes more so than they love their spouses or children.

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And where pray tell do these crimes happen?

Wherever there is an armed guy who decides to use his gun.

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I honestly find your stigma on gun owners personally insulting.

I have no doubt of that.

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and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

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And where pray tell do these crimes happen?

Wherever there is an armed guy who decides to use his gun.

Cough cough where people can't defend themselves.

Nobody ever gets killed in a war, I presume.

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I honestly find your stigma on gun owners personally insulting. My entire family owns weapons. None of us have a criminal background, and none of us are insane.

You are pretty damn crazy, for starters.

There's a difference between ideology and clinical insanity.

But sometimes there is correlation.

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and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

 To answer the war statement. Those are deliberately made to kill. Firefights from people that want to kill each other will do that!

And there are guns that are not made to kill?

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and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

What the f uck are you even talking about? We'd know by now!

That is a very strong statement to make about oneself. I would never clame I am sane - how the hell would I know?

And, in any case, you might still need an insanity defense next time you use your gun, you know.

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and none of us are insane.

But this remains to be proved.

What the f uck are you even talking about? We'd know by now! To answer the war statement. Those are deliberately made to kill. Firefights from people that want to kill each other will do that!

And there are guns that are not made to kill?

All guns are designed to kill. But that does not mean everyone that owns one is going to shoot up a preschool.  

Not everybody. But quite a few of them will.

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I honestly find your stigma on gun owners personally insulting. My entire family owns weapons. None of us have a criminal background, and none of us are insane.

People who have no criminal history and who pass the proper mental health exams have the right to bear arms. Nobody is saying they don't.

Ag seems to be. As I said, I support background check expansions!

I am not advocating anything. Definitely not as a matter of government policy. I am just telling you how I feel about people who feel they need to own/carry/use guns in peacetime. You find that personally insulting - well, I can't help this.

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When I started reading this thread I was planning on responding in a serious fashion....but then I finished reading it and realized nobody else was.

Well, you saw ME posting