Provisional Parliament: Voting on Amendment

[Leinad]

I'll be voting nay as well.

"But wait, you proposed the amendment!" Yes, but I just proposed it as an alternative to the two-thirds amendment, for those who would've prefered a simple majority (which is by far my least favorite option of the 3). As it looks like 2/3rds is the consensus choice, there's no need for a compromise. (I think "fallacy of the mean" is a silly argument against it, but whatever.)

[Barnes]

Leinad, you could just withdraw your amendment.

[Leinad]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Right...thanks for reminding me I could do that!

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to withdraw my amendment.

[Donerail]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I propose an amendment.

[Leinad]

I concur that Hash would be a good president, but why are we making it our habit to rush through these decisions?

Hagrid has declared that he wants the job. Why not at least formally figure out who's better, instead of doing what we've been doing: going with the first good idea, instead of trying to determine what the best idea is.

[Potus]

I concur that Hash would be a good president, but why are we making it our habit to rush through these decisions?

Hagrid has declared that he wants the job. Why not at least formally figure out who's better, instead of doing what we've been doing: going with the first good idea, instead of trying to determine what the best idea is.

Because this is an elections game, Leinad. Our rules and government should be conceived by an elected Parliament, not the first twenty people who saw the thread and were interested. The Interim President will be swiftly declared, Parliament will be dissolved, and we will hold elections to determine the future of the game. As of now, we are unelected bureaucrats. Time to change that.

[Leinad]

I concur that Hash would be a good president, but why are we making it our habit to rush through these decisions?

Hagrid has declared that he wants the job. Why not at least formally figure out who's better, instead of doing what we've been doing: going with the first good idea, instead of trying to determine what the best idea is.

Because this is an elections game, Leinad. Our rules and government should be conceived by an elected Parliament, not the first twenty people who saw the thread and were interested. The Interim President will be swiftly declared, Parliament will be dissolved, and we will hold elections to determine the future of the game. As of now, we are unelected bureaucrats. Time to change that.

I get your point, but I find it ironic how "this is an elections game" is the argument in favor of, as you said, unelected bureaucrats informally and hurriedly making key decisions.

Anyway, it's not just the Interim President. I understand that it's a role that, in the grand scheme of things, won't decide important policy or whatnot. But it's only the 3rd worst offender: the decisions on both the location and name were made far too quickly. The name decision, I suppose, could be changed, and it's not really like it fundamentally alters the game--but the location decision can not be changed by an elected Parliament later on. I'm not arguing with the choice (South America isn't a bad location at all) I'm simply arguing with how the choice was made.

Look, I'm not trying to be the no-fun-police, or "clutching my lapels" (still have no idea what that means...maybe I'm just streets behind...) and I'm not even getting that upset by it (I'm actually an easy-going fellow), I just think that we should go about this the right way--as in, be open to considering other ideas. I think that we went about the location decision the wrong way, and I think that we went about the name decision the wrong way--can't I get 1 out of 3?

[Blair]

christ are you always on?

[Donerail]

One thing to note is that no one has raised any questions about Hash. No one has questioned his competence or his ability to serve as President for our first term. We've found a candidate that is capable of providing stable leadership, who has already garnered support from members of at least three parties, across the ideological spectrum. Considering that this is a temporary appointment, I don't see any reason to delay any further. Let's move this along, and let the elected representatives of the people deliberate on a more permanent selection.

[Leinad]

christ are you always on?

Always on what?

On-topic? Not really. On-the-record? No. On-demand? Almost. On-goal? No, I'm a poor shooter. On the rebound? From what? Ontario? Never been there, yet.

As the great prophet Yogi Berra sayeth, "it's deja vu all over again."

If you mean what Oakvale meant earlier, about me "clutching my lapels," I'd like to reiterate I haven't the slightest idea what that means.

[Leinad]

By the way, noticing that I hadn't already done so officially, I object this amendment. Let's at least put it to a vote.

One thing to note is that no one has raised any questions about Hash. No one has questioned his competence or his ability to serve as President for our first term. We've found a candidate that is capable of providing stable leadership, who has already garnered support from members of at least three parties, across the ideological spectrum. Considering that this is a temporary appointment, I don't see any reason to delay any further. Let's move this along, and let the elected representatives of the people deliberate on a more permanent selection.

I agree, he'd be good for the job. And compared to the other decisions, rushing through this one wouldn't be as harmful. I'm still not a fan of rushing through decisions like we have, simply accepting the first good proposition instead of ensuring it's the best proposition, for reasons I've already elaborated on ad nauseum.

[PJ]

Hash is a great choice (normal). Please don't object to amendments you have no problem with. This is a waste of time.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

The sky will not fall if we take a little bit of time to make sure there's consensus. The game is at its early stage. If people feel like they have been steamrolled and their opinions have not even been considered, they might leave. And I think the state of this sim is too delicate in its infancy for us to want something like that to happen.

What's so bad about exploring options, holding votes, and deliberating?

[Leinad]

Amen, Hagrid. They seem to think there's a deadline to start, or we need to hurry so everyone doesn't get bored.

Hash is a great choice (normal). Please don't object to amendments you have no problem with. This is a waste of time.

I said I thought he'd be a good choice. I never said I thought he'd be the best choice. My reasons for objection are clear: I'd rather Hagrid be Interim President, and I'd also rather we take it to an actual vote instead of this rushed system where all dissenting opinions are treated like heresy.

(At the moment, Hash is only at 54% in the poll, by the way. Considering the small sample size of that poll, it's impossible to say he's such a favorite that we shouldn't even vote on the matter.)

[Хahar 🤔]

Hashemite has the support of the three largest parties. He will win. Stop wasting everyone's time.

[Barnes]

The reason anyone might leave the game is because they have become bored with an un-elected, ad-hoc Parliament deciding everything for them.  We are all very much ready to move into an election campaign, go through the process of government formation, and get people into roles.

Everything that people are saying we should give more time to can be accomplished in the elected Parliament and it will be much more fun since we will have governments and oppositions with their own agendas as well as members that have actually been elected.

We risk running into one of the great problems of Atlasia by spending too much time "perfecting" the game and then becoming convinced that every component of it is entrenched and should be treated with reverence.

[Talleyrand]

I think Hagrid would be a good President too, but for the sake of the game, we should elect the person with the most knowledge about South America and already has the support of the game's three largest parties (as Xahar has pointed out earlier).

Once we have an election and a government is formed, legislation on creating a Head of State will be finalized. Then we can have longer deliberation/discussion, whatever.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

My bid was mostly in jest, as I'm finding myself a little caught off-guard by the pace of things as well. I'm not posting here because I'm upset that I'm not going to be president. But thanks.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

In light of Hagrids announcement, I vote AYE on the amendment.

[TNF]

Leinard's amendment has been withdrawn.

The following amendment is now up for debate. This will be the last amendment considered for this bill, unless the amendment in question fails. We have spent far too much time on this.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Blair]

This bill has my full support, along as Hashemite is fine being Interim President then I can't see anything wrong with it. We need to get on to actually having an election and all that jazz

[Talleyrand]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Assuming the amendment passes and we can get the presidency bill through, I'm proposing this act to have the election as soon as is reasonably possible, considering it has already been a month since the beginning of provisional parliament.

[Potus]

I move to suspend rules and move to a vote on Hashemite being elected President.

[Talleyrand]

I move to suspend rules and move to a vote on Hashemite being elected President.

Don't you mean a final vote on the bill itself? As long as no one objects to the amendment proposed by SJoyce, he is already designated as President.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Aye.