Vice Presidential Election Amendment (Debating)
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  Vice Presidential Election Amendment (Debating)
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Author Topic: Vice Presidential Election Amendment (Debating)  (Read 3192 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2015, 08:14:18 PM »

This fits the Duke plan like a fing Glove just saying. Tongue VP acts as liason between the Senate PPT, House speaker and President. He could preside over any joint sessions, handle the elections of officers of both chambers, confirmation hearings in the Senate and even control emergency slots in both chambers. The opportunities are endless.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2015, 12:55:24 PM »

This fits the Duke plan like a fing Glove just saying. Tongue VP acts as liason between the Senate PPT, House speaker and President. He could preside over any joint sessions, handle the elections of officers of both chambers, confirmation hearings in the Senate and even control emergency slots in both chambers. The opportunities are endless.

I totally agree with you, but obviously passing any major reform plan is the obstacle.
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bore
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« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2015, 06:59:17 PM »

The President doesn't really have much control over the VP at the moment, as in he can't fire them once they're in office, so I imagine that relationship between the two offices would be kept the same. But I'm not inclined to support this, because I think it's very important, as the job presently is, to keep the executive all on one side. If this went through the president would not only have no control over a successor, but the VP would mainly transform into an extra senator (as the tie breaking vote is the offices main official power) further weakening the separation of powers. If the system changes as Yankee alludes to then obviously this should be thought about more.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2015, 01:36:43 PM »

I'm terribly sorry for a delay, it's been a crazy week.

I understand points made above, but I must repeat the major goal of the amendment. The very backbone of the game are elections and we've just seen the lowest turnout in memory of most of our active members. I believe every mean to make the elections more interesting should be used, especially at this very difficult time.

I also believe that, given the VP being first in the line of succession, it's only fair to let the people make a choice, instead of simply having a name attached to the presidential candidate. It works fine in many jurisdictions worldwide, as well as in many of our regions and the world is not falling apart because of this. The possible problems are highly overestimated.

And finally, such an idea has been proposed before but never did the people have a chance to make a decision. It's only fair to let the voters decide.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2015, 12:09:23 AM »

I think there is still the fundamental issue is that the VP has a clear constitutional role as a tie-breaking vote. In my experience as president, my view was that that call must be made in accordance with the overall policies of the Administration.

By doing this, YES, you create a more interesting election, but at the same time, you risk political instability, where a Vice President can be an additional political instrument the President and Senate must navigate. Now, I understand the attraction to this, but I don't think there's been enough thought as to how this scenario would work in reality beyond the fun of the election.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2015, 12:56:18 AM »

     Realistically, a big part of the strength of the executive comes from presenting a united front across the various offices comprising it. For this to work, we'd probably need to make the executive far more powerful to compensate for losing that united front. President is already enough of a booby prize as is.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2015, 01:31:19 AM »

     Realistically, a big part of the strength of the executive comes from presenting a united front across the various offices comprising it. For this to work, we'd probably need to make the executive far more powerful to compensate for losing that united front. President is already enough of a booby prize as is.

Because let's be honest... the Executive essentially serve at the President's pleasure. So you'd have someone in their team who they don't want and might actively antagonistic. Plus PiT is correct here that doing this at the same time as the President's powers continue to be whittled away is just a bit silly.

Why be President?
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2015, 06:52:16 AM »

Well, the ConCon is coming, so we may better wait for this instead of proceeding with individual amendments like this, which may be soon excluded from the new constitution anyway.

I don't agree with your assesments the Vice Presidency should remain as it is, but for the reason states above, as well as the fact we're getting nowhere, I've decided to withdraw myself as a sponsor.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2015, 07:12:37 AM »

Motion to table
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2015, 03:09:24 PM »

Senators have 24 hours to object.
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2015, 08:27:54 PM »

The ConCon is a better place for this, I agree.

I don't have a problem with this amendment myself. It would only make passing a bill more difficult in extremely specific circumstances (VP/President opposed and a split senate), and gives voters slightly more choice.
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Prince of Salem
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« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2015, 11:11:49 AM »

Motion seconded.

Yeah , I was initially enthusiastic about it, but very good points have been made against it, and we have a ConCon coming, so… Sad
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2015, 03:00:44 AM »

Motion seconded.

Yeah , I was initially enthusiastic about it, but very good points have been made against it, and we have a ConCon coming, so… Sad

     I sort of turned on it myself, actually.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2015, 06:37:55 AM »

Without objection, this amendment has been tabled.
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