Trump: Make America White Again?

[eric82oslo]

Madelka told me that he had reported the thread. I don't know for what reason. And now he's blocked me, so I can't ask him why either. Maybe he's a Trump supporter.

[Likely Voter]

I have edited the title of the OP to be a question. It was wrong to imply that a candidate said something he did not. 

[eric82oslo]

Sorry, but I've reported the thread as well - for the reason Castro stated:

Trump is a crazy guy and there's a lot to attack him on, but you don't need to misquote him so it sounds like he's saying something blatantly racist. There's enough blatantly racists comments of his out there to use already.

I know you've removed the quotation marks, but to someone who reads the title it still seems like he's said something racist. You also shouldn't make fun of that "... lives matter as well" stuff. We all know that Trump's supporters are lily-white.

Okey, I'll try to be creative and come up with a new title (which is funny, as it's mostly made for fun, and 40% seriousness of course). Any suggestions? It wasn't my intention to upset people. I thought very few people actually took Trump seriously, but I see now that I'm wrong lol. I used to strongly oppose Huffington Post's Trump decision, but now I kind of feel that he's more in there for the entertainment value as well, rather than him being serious about his opinions. He said at the religious gathering that he never talked to God or something, that he never asked him for forgiveness and such and so forth. And then suddenly he starts saying that the Bible is so much greater than every other book ever written. I wonder how much truth there could be to that statement lol. In my opinion, Trump's untrustfulness is the biggest story of this campaign so far, yet I haven't even read one single article actually adressing that yet.

[eric82oslo]

I have edited the title of the OP to be a question. It was wrong to imply that a candidate said something he did not. 

Good. Happy it didn't get deleted at least, as this is a pretty serious issue. Trump is even causing racial violence (one incident so far), so it's not only words anymore.

[Jacobtm]

It's a sure sign of anti-white animus that simply a photo of white people gathered together provokes some mix of ridicule, fear, and scorn from so many.

America has a right to determine who comes here and who doesn't. Keeping out poor immigrants will benefit literally all Americans, black, white, latino, etc. Our poor especially are being undercut by illegal immigrants for different types of jobs that used to be the provenance of American poor people who actually would earn the minimum wage.

[weixiaobao]

ou know what you get if you search for "Make America White Again" on YouTube? Donald Trump.

And you know what happen when you search Santorum.  I am a pro gay right.  But the whole Santorum search thing was juvenile of the gay activist.  Santorum is a last name for quite a decent amount of people.  I am anti bullying (and gay bullying).  What does Dan Savage think would happen to children with the last name Santorum when they go to school?

This center left gay Vietnamese, 1st generation naturalize citizen who waited 10 years to come to the USA, support Trump (especially over these racial charges).  So what next, are you gonna tell the Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Sudanese, Egyptian, French, German, British, Australian, Korean, Saudis, Somalis, etc and etc as racist because they don't have this automatic birth right citizenship especially for lawbreakers with both parents are not the citizens of their respective countries?

Even within the USA's laws.  I can't believe the hypocrisy of the 14th amendment and the 2nd amendment.  We know that the constitution didn't meant for every single citizen to own machine guns and tanks.  And we do know the constitution didn't meant for 30 million illegal immigrants to have babies and become automatic citizens.

It isn't great for immigrant overall.  This will create a cap to legal immigration.  People already waiting for decades to get into the USA.  And not everyone share an immediate border to the USA for this illegal fence hopping.

Sanders share my views the most.  But what has he accomplish?  Nothing.  I will vote for Hillary.  If she go down.  Then I would vote for Trump.  He had done more good on campaign finance in his 1 minute of Fox News Debate than some of these organization over multiple years (like Wolf Pac).  And he brought this issues to the conservatives who seemed to not care prior to Trump.  Even if Trump ended up do nothing about it.  At least, now new wave of Republican can run on it knowing it would be decently popular.

[eric82oslo]

It's a sure sign of anti-white animus that simply a photo of white people gathered together provokes some mix of ridicule, fear, and scorn from so many.

America has a right to determine who comes here and who doesn't. Keeping out poor immigrants will benefit literally all Americans, black, white, latino, etc. Our poor especially are being undercut by illegal immigrants for different types of jobs that used to be the provenance of American poor people who actually would earn the minimum wage.

Would you like to see an increase in the national minimum wage? I haven't seen Trump adress that yet. (Once again, journalists care more about glamour than substance.)

[Jacobtm]

Would you like to see an increase in the national minimum wage? I haven't seen Trump adress that yet. (Once again, journalists care more about glamour than substance.)

Trump has said that he wants to keep the minimum wage about where it is. This was in his interview on Meet the Press.

I am fine with states or cities doing what they like here. I understand both sides of the argument, raising it would benefit some people and be a drag for some other people. I am not particularly animated by this issue. If it were raised to $25, ok cool, great. I wouldn't be upset. If it stayed where it is, same.

However, if illegal immigrants were gone or significantly reduced in number, that would be a lot of construction, manual labor, gardening, dishwashing, etc. jobs that would suddenly need to be done and be filled by Americans making at least the minimum wage in their locality. Which would be better than these Americans having no income or living off welfare.

[eric82oslo]

However, if illegal immigrants were gone or significantly reduced in number, that would be a lot of construction, manual labor, gardening, dishwashing, etc. jobs that would suddenly need to be done and be filled by Americans making at least the minimum wage in their locality. Which would be better than these Americans having no income or living off welfare.

This is a myth, or even a hoax if you want. You can say whatever you want about global warming deniers, yet this is the way I see it an even much greater hoax still. They do the work that noone else is willing to do. Try to get your poor white unemployed neighbour to start cleaning toilets, and he probably wouldn't even talk to you anymore. And immigrants don't steal other people's work. Research show something like for every 10 new immigrant workers, something like 12 more jobs are created. By the way, did you know that most billionaires don't pay taxes at all? Neither do many/most multi national companies. Is that fair?

[Marokai Backbeat]

I love how Republicans get to say things like "Make America great again!" but Michelle Obama is evil for saying she was truly proud of her country for the first time in her life.

[eric82oslo]

I love how Republicans get to say things like "Make America great again!" but Michelle Obama is evil for saying she was truly proud of her country for the first time in her life.

Lol, so true.

I was so pissed when the conservative media turned that against her.

[Famous Mortimer]

However, if illegal immigrants were gone or significantly reduced in number, that would be a lot of construction, manual labor, gardening, dishwashing, etc. jobs that would suddenly need to be done and be filled by Americans making at least the minimum wage in their locality. Which would be better than these Americans having no income or living off welfare.

This is a myth, or even a hoax if you want. You can say whatever you want about global warming deniers, yet this is the way I see it an even much greater hoax still. They do the work that noone else is willing to do. Try to get your poor white unemployed neighbour to start cleaning toilets, and he probably wouldn't even talk to you anymore. And immigrants don't steal other people's work. Research show something like for every 10 new immigrant workers, something like 12 more jobs are created. By the way, did you know that most billionaires don't pay taxes at all? Neither do many/most multi national companies. Is that fair?

I could buy that Whites might not want to do agricultural work in the fields but the idea that they wouldn't be janitors is ridiculous. Most White people I know would jump at the chance to be janitors since the jobs actually do pay pretty well but they only go to immigrants because management is afraid White people would want even more. Additionally, it's not just low prestige jobs immigrants are taking. I worked as a temp in the mail room of two major banks, both times I was the only American born person there except for management. I wouldn't have a problem if these people had been hired because they were more qualified than American born workers but that clearly wasn't the case, as many of them were borderline illiterate. They were clearly only hired because they would work for less.

[eric82oslo]

However, if illegal immigrants were gone or significantly reduced in number, that would be a lot of construction, manual labor, gardening, dishwashing, etc. jobs that would suddenly need to be done and be filled by Americans making at least the minimum wage in their locality. Which would be better than these Americans having no income or living off welfare.

This is a myth, or even a hoax if you want. You can say whatever you want about global warming deniers, yet this is the way I see it an even much greater hoax still. They do the work that noone else is willing to do. Try to get your poor white unemployed neighbour to start cleaning toilets, and he probably wouldn't even talk to you anymore. And immigrants don't steal other people's work. Research show something like for every 10 new immigrant workers, something like 12 more jobs are created. By the way, did you know that most billionaires don't pay taxes at all? Neither do many/most multi national companies. Is that fair?

I could buy that Whites might not want to do agricultural work in the fields but the idea that they wouldn't be janitors is ridiculous. Most White people I know would jump at the chance to be janitors since the jobs actually do pay pretty well but they only go to immigrants because management is afraid White people would want even more. Additionally, it's not just low prestige jobs immigrants are taking. I worked as a temp in the mail room of two major banks, both times I was the only American born person there except for management. I wouldn't have a problem if these people had been hired because they were more qualified than American born workers but that clearly wasn't the case, as many of them were borderline illiterate. They were clearly only hired because they would work for less.

That's why we need a higher minimum wage. (Even if the US minimum wage is pretty high by international standards.) I think Norway has the world's highest minimum wage and the world's highest productivity rate, at the same time. So it's not like a high minimum wage makes companies miserable or something. The Norwegian government has almost one trillion dollars in stocks, bonds (and etcetera) right now, so clearly our "ridiculously" high minimum wage wasn't/isn't all bad.

[Simfan34]

...those liquid assets (obviously) come from oil revenues.

[Famous Mortimer]

No matter how high the minimum wage is, employers will still hire immigrants because they will work for the lowest amount allowed. Hypothetically though, if you do raise the minimum wage high enough that employers decide they actually want people who can read and write English, that opens up a whole new problem. What then do you do with all the immigrants who are now unemployed? Do you allow more to keep coming in?

I know, I know. Loads of poor immigrants having children they can't afford is going to make lots and lots of jobs because the Cato Institute said so.

[eric82oslo]

...those liquid assets (obviously) come from oil revenues.

Sure, yet it's the same in the other Nordic countries as well, although not to quite the same degree as with Norway. Sweden and Denmark have both done shockingly well, and Denmark is by definition the most socialist country in the world, as the government taxes its population 52-53% of their entire income. Socialism isn't necessarily bad, as you can hardly find any country other than Japan where there is less crime than in the Nordic countries.

[eric82oslo]

I know, I know. Loads of poor immigrants having children they can't afford is going to make lots and lots of jobs because the Cato Institute said so.

That's condescending. Both liberal and conservative research have come up with this fact, that immigration causes prosperity. Actually it's universally agreed upon that there are basically two and near only two reasons why Japan has been doing so miserably economically speaking for the past 25 years:

1) The fact that Japanese couples have way too few children and that Japanese people have the highest life expectancy of any country in the world (by quite a distance in fact).

2) The fact that Japan as the only "open" country in the world (basically excluding North Korea and perhaps one or two more countries) do not allow immigration at all, only at the extreme limit. I think they accept less than 1000 immigrants annually or something (and loads of those are from the Philippines).

Basically every Japanese high official know that their anti-immigration has been the causation of their economic disaster, yet so far they have nurtured cultural cohesion more than economic expansion. We will see for how long that will continue.

[Jacobtm]

However, if illegal immigrants were gone or significantly reduced in number, that would be a lot of construction, manual labor, gardening, dishwashing, etc. jobs that would suddenly need to be done and be filled by Americans making at least the minimum wage in their locality. Which would be better than these Americans having no income or living off welfare.

This is a myth, or even a hoax if you want. You can say whatever you want about global warming deniers, yet this is the way I see it an even much greater hoax still. They do the work that noone else is willing to do. Try to get your poor white unemployed neighbour to start cleaning toilets, and he probably wouldn't even talk to you anymore. And immigrants don't steal other people's work. Research show something like for every 10 new immigrant workers, something like 12 more jobs are created. By the way, did you know that most billionaires don't pay taxes at all? Neither do many/most multi national companies. Is that fair?

Completely untrue.

Do you think before the U.S. had millions of illegals, no one mopped? No one cleaned dishes? No one picked food, or did construction?

It isn't only cleaning toilets, illegals are huge in the construction industry for instance, you see them as landscapers/gardeners everywhere.

These are jobs that if there weren't illegals around, someone would have to do it.

The fact that you think there literally are not people you could pay to sweep the floors or clean toilets is silly, every country in the world has people to do these jobs. If no one wants to do it, well then the market would indicate that you should pay a higher price for that job. Businessowners would love to import quasi-slaves who they could pay almost nothing. But if that's not an option, then they'd have to actually pay a citizen the minimum wage.

I have no sympathy for the super-rich who pay no taxes, I do not worship at the altar of tax cuts.

[eric82oslo]

I have no sympathy for the super-rich who pay no taxes, I do not worship at the altar of tax cuts.

Good.

[Mehmentum]

No matter how high the minimum wage is, employers will still hire immigrants because they will work for the lowest amount allowed. Hypothetically though, if you do raise the minimum wage high enough that employers decide they actually want people who can read and write English, that opens up a whole new problem. What then do you do with all the immigrants who are now unemployed? Do you allow more to keep coming in?

I know, I know. Loads of poor immigrants having children they can't afford is going to make lots and lots of jobs because the Cato Institute said so.

If it were just the Cato Institute, you would have a point.  However, there's an academic consensus that disagrees with you.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

And no, the Brookings Institution isn't a conservative think-tank.  It's centrist to center-left, on the whole. 

As the Time article explains:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

"White power" got yelled a few times during the rally.

[Famous Mortimer]

No matter how high the minimum wage is, employers will still hire immigrants because they will work for the lowest amount allowed. Hypothetically though, if you do raise the minimum wage high enough that employers decide they actually want people who can read and write English, that opens up a whole new problem. What then do you do with all the immigrants who are now unemployed? Do you allow more to keep coming in?

I know, I know. Loads of poor immigrants having children they can't afford is going to make lots and lots of jobs because the Cato Institute said so.

If it were just the Cato Institute, you would have a point.  However, there's an academic consensus that disagrees with you.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

And no, the Brookings Institution isn't a conservative think-tank.  It's centrist to center-left, on the whole. 

As the Time article explains:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Whether the Brookings Institution is a conservative think tank or not is a matter of legitimate debate. Even if it's to be considered liberal, it's the least liberal liberal think tank there is. Exactly the type of market worshipers who think the economy should be measured primarily by the stock options of the super wealthy.

I understand that increased demand will indeed create increased job opportunities. I just think it's wishful thinking to imagine that unskilled immigration will create MORE jobs than there are new immigrants.

As to altering the job market itself, I admit that one area where immigration does indeed create a lot of jobs is under the table, subsistence level restaurant and convenience store  jobs. This is not really an ideal economic model though.

[eric82oslo]

You also shouldn't make fun of that "... lives matter as well" stuff. We all know that Trump's supporters are lily-white.

By the way, Republicans don't want to make America safer by imposing some kind of gun control, and constantly make fun of Democrats for trying to do so, so why can't I have a little fun at the expense of BLM's military actions coupled with Trump's insanely divisive rhetoric?

[Mehmentum]

However, if illegal immigrants were gone or significantly reduced in number, that would be a lot of construction, manual labor, gardening, dishwashing, etc. jobs that would suddenly need to be done and be filled by Americans making at least the minimum wage in their locality. Which would be better than these Americans having no income or living off welfare.

This is a myth, or even a hoax if you want. You can say whatever you want about global warming deniers, yet this is the way I see it an even much greater hoax still. They do the work that noone else is willing to do. Try to get your poor white unemployed neighbour to start cleaning toilets, and he probably wouldn't even talk to you anymore. And immigrants don't steal other people's work. Research show something like for every 10 new immigrant workers, something like 12 more jobs are created. By the way, did you know that most billionaires don't pay taxes at all? Neither do many/most multi national companies. Is that fair?

Completely untrue.

Do you think before the U.S. had millions of illegals, no one mopped? No one cleaned dishes? No one picked food, or did construction?

It isn't only cleaning toilets, illegals are huge in the construction industry for instance, you see them as landscapers/gardeners everywhere.

These are jobs that if there weren't illegals around, someone would have to do it.

The fact that you think there literally are not people you could pay to sweep the floors or clean toilets is silly, every country in the world has people to do these jobs. If no one wants to do it, well then the market would indicate that you should pay a higher price for that job. Businessowners would love to import quasi-slaves who they could pay almost nothing. But if that's not an option, then they'd have to actually pay a citizen the minimum wage.

I have no sympathy for the super-rich who pay no taxes, I do not worship at the altar of tax cuts.

The big thing you're ignoring is that our society isn't anything like what it was 100 or 200 years ago.  The United States is more educated and affluent than ever before.  There simply aren't enough native born working class people to fill these jobs, and someone who went to college is going to have no interest in what these kinds of low paying jobs.

You could argue that without immigrants, the wages for these jobs would rise until someone would work in them.  However, the wage for these jobs would have to rise so much, that these industries would either become untenable, or simply couldn't compete with low wage foreign competition.  This would be most strongly felt in the agriculture and manufacturing, and would have a ripple effect throughout our economy.

That's right, if we kick the immigrants out, the jobs will follow them overseas.  The only differences are that these people would make even less in their home countries, and we would be even more dependent on foreign labor.

[badgate]

I love how everyone is focusing on this thread title so that they can sidestep Trump's racist campaign.