Black Lives Matter releases its policy platform

[ElectionsGuy]

Link from Vox

Here are the ten planks:

1. End broken windows policing
2. Community oversight
3. Limit use of force
4. Independently investigate and prosecute
5. Community representation
6. Body cameras and filming the police
7. Training
8. End for-profit policing
9. Demilitarization
10. Fair police contracts

They also match up presidential candidates with each of these goals, and I believe Bernie does the best, with 8/10. O'Malley gets 7/10, Hillary gets 2/10 and Rand gets 1/10. All the other Republican candidates get 0.

[bedstuy]

There are a lot of good ideas here.

I don't think we should end broken windows policing though.  Broken windows isn't something that should be implemented everywhere, but it works in areas that are out of control.  In neighborhoods where people don't feel safe to even go outside, the police need to establish a basic sense of security for the people.  Broken windows policing did that here in NYC and helped us reduce crime a tremendous amount.

Also, I wish we could talk about reducing gun violence and crime.  The biggest reason that black people are killed more often by police is that black communities have more crime.  If we reduce the crime rate and gang membership among young black men, that would go a long way towards solving the problem here.  Obviously, it's not a sexy issue because there's no good political angle and the victims are mostly black.  But, this should go hand and hand with changing police tactics.

[muon2]

bedstuy, I agree that reducing gang membership for young blacks would make a difference. Do you have any suggestions that would break the cycle of gang membership, which is often built into families?

[tpfkaw]

I don't think we should end broken windows policing though.  Broken windows isn't something that should be implemented everywhere

Yeah, I ought to be protected from criminals, but feel free to finks over those hicks in flyover country!  I mean we Democrats can all agree on that, right you guys?

I guess I shouldn't be picking on you too much since you clearly aren't a complete raving lunatic/ultra-naive child, which means you are in the top ten percent of posters here on this issue, but the stereotypical New Yorker selfishness is a bit grating.

[Simfan34]

I don't think we should end broken windows policing though.  Broken windows isn't something that should be implemented everywhere

Yeah, I ought to be protected from criminals, but feel free to finks over those hicks in flyover country!  I mean we Democrats can all agree on that, right you guys?

I guess I shouldn't be picking on you too much since you clearly aren't a complete raving lunatic/ultra-naive child, which means you are in the top ten percent of posters here on this issue, but the stereotypical New Yorker selfishness is a bit grating.

If people in "flyover country" also want broken windows policing, they should be allowed to have it, too.

"Community oversight" sounds like a good idea in theory, but if you read their proposal it essentially says that "communities" should decide on punishments for police wrongdoing rather than having it internally resolved. That is, of course, little more than rule of the mob.

[YaBoyNY]

I don't think we should end broken windows policing though.  Broken windows isn't something that should be implemented everywhere

Yeah, I ought to be protected from criminals, but feel free to finks over those hicks in flyover country!  I mean we Democrats can all agree on that, right you guys?

I guess I shouldn't be picking on you too much since you clearly aren't a complete raving lunatic/ultra-naive child, which means you are in the top ten percent of posters here on this issue, but the stereotypical New Yorker selfishness is a bit grating.

What the fink does this have to do with anything he said?

[bedstuy]

I don't think we should end broken windows policing though.  Broken windows isn't something that should be implemented everywhere

Yeah, I ought to be protected from criminals, but feel free to finks over those hicks in flyover country!  I mean we Democrats can all agree on that, right you guys?

I guess I shouldn't be picking on you too much since you clearly aren't a complete raving lunatic/ultra-naive child, which means you are in the top ten percent of posters here on this issue, but the stereotypical New Yorker selfishness is a bit grating.

I don't know what you mean.

My point is that broken windows policing is best designed for certain types of neighborhoods with certain patterns of crime.  You don't police a neighborhood with rampant murders the same way you police a neighborhood with little to no violent crime.  I'm not a fan of broken windows policing in a neighborhood without a crime problem, that's more just bothering people for no reason.  And, that's when you get into the nuisance policing where you try to raise money by busting people for victimless crimes.

Broken windows is more about getting people to trust that basic notions of order will be enforced.  If a neighborhood doesn't have a crime problem or rampant quality of life annoyances, the cops should step back. 

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

bedstuy, I agree that reducing gang membership for young blacks would make a difference. Do you have any suggestions that would break the cycle of gang membership, which is often built into families?

Economic solutions that decrease the 51% unemployment rate among black youth is what's needed. Bernie Sanders wants new infrastructure programs that will help with that.

[bedstuy]

bedstuy, I agree that reducing gang membership for young blacks would make a difference. Do you have any suggestions that would break the cycle of gang membership, which is often built into families?

Economic solutions that decrease the 51% unemployment rate among black youth is what's needed. Bernie Sanders wants new infrastructure programs that will help with that.

Kids get involved with gangs between 10 and 15 though.  That's the age where you lose kids.  Once those kids are old enough to work, they already have a rap sheet and a gun. 

[Simfan34]

Simple: keep them in the classroom, in after-school activities, and doing homework. The solution is easy to find, however, it is not as easy to implement.

[DrScholl]

The people who put out this platform probably don't vote in midterms and probably have never voted in a local election. It's highly likely that they can't name a member of their local government. Police procedure is set at the local level, so if you want change you have to work hard at that level to achieve it. And if necessary, you have to get on board with gang injunctions, because much of if not most of the crime in black neighborhoods is gang related.

Black neighborhoods tend to be economically isolated and that doesn't make finding work easy. Adding vocational courses to high school curriculum can prepare young people to break the cycle. If there aren't funds to do this, Black Lives Matter should start a non-profit that funds after-school programs and vocational programs to uplift students and keep them away from gangs.

[Simfan34]

I've never been known as an optimist regarding the depth of the general public's knowledge, but I feel comfortable in saying that the people who drafted this probably are at least a little bit more engaged politically than the average person they claim to represent, or even the average member of their movement.

[muon2]

Kids get involved with gangs between 10 and 15 though.  That's the age where you lose kids.  Once those kids are old enough to work, they already have a rap sheet and a gun. 

That's what I've seen as well. After school programs seem to reach only a fraction, and doesn't make a dent overall in gang activity. Do you have any thoughts that might move the needle here?

[Jacobtm]

Here is one program that was apparently successful at reducing crime among young black people. Giving them jobs and an adult mentor reduced crime over an 18-month period.

The study says that teen employment is at a 60-year low, and obviously fatherlessness is a huge predictor of criminality. So finding a job and some employed adult to act as a positive influence in these kids lives had a positive effect. Wonderful.

I can't help but note that if illegal immigrants were deported, there would be many minimum wage jobs suddenly opening up to poor black kids that could help them make money in a legitimate way. Most studies of gangs that sell drugs find that the average guy selling drugs actually makes less per hour than the minimum wage. Working some crappy job also doesn't get you shot as often as gang work does.

The study:

http://news.uchicago.edu/article/2014/12/04/chicago-summer-jobs-program-students-dramatically-reduces-youth-violence

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[Marokai Backbeat]

They also match up presidential candidates with each of these goals, and I believe Bernie does the best, with 8/10. O'Malley gets 7/10, Hillary gets 2/10 and Rand gets 1/10. All the other Republican candidates get 0.

What a shock.

[/]

Just shows the extent of Bernie's Bernieness.

[Clark Kent]

What's "broken windows policing"?

[bedstuy]

What's "broken windows policing"?

Look it up on wikipedia.

[Potus]

What's "broken windows policing"?

The Broken Windows Theory basically says that places with a feeling of disorder will inevitably lead to more actual disorder. It is the tried-and-true tactic of changing the perception surrounding lawbreaking. It helped save New York City.

The name comes from an experiment where researched placed a car in two demographically and criminally  similar neighborhoods beside abandoned buildings. One abandoned building was still mostly intact, no graffiti, and maybe having windows intact or well-boarded up. The second building had graffiti and broken windows. One looked more orderly than the other. The car beside the broken windows was  broken into and vandalized at a much faster rate than the other.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Richmond CA has been paying key males (mostly if not all black) aged 13-25 to stay out of trouble. The murder rate has dropped 77%.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/04/richmond-california-anti-violence_n_7504554.html

[Bigby]

What's "broken windows policing"?

The Broken Windows Theory basically says that places with a feeling of disorder will inevitably lead to more actual disorder. It is the tried-and-true tactic of changing the perception surrounding lawbreaking. It helped save New York City.

The name comes from an experiment where researched placed a car in two demographically and criminally  similar neighborhoods beside abandoned buildings. One abandoned building was still mostly intact, no graffiti, and maybe having windows intact or well-boarded up. The second building had graffiti and broken windows. One looked more orderly than the other. The car beside the broken windows was  broken into and vandalized at a much faster rate than the other.

May I ask why BLM opposes the policy? I am just wanting some clarification is all.

[Potus]

What's "broken windows policing"?

The Broken Windows Theory basically says that places with a feeling of disorder will inevitably lead to more actual disorder. It is the tried-and-true tactic of changing the perception surrounding lawbreaking. It helped save New York City.

The name comes from an experiment where researched placed a car in two demographically and criminally  similar neighborhoods beside abandoned buildings. One abandoned building was still mostly intact, no graffiti, and maybe having windows intact or well-boarded up. The second building had graffiti and broken windows. One looked more orderly than the other. The car beside the broken windows was  broken into and vandalized at a much faster rate than the other.

May I ask why BLM opposes the policy? I am just wanting some clarification is all.

Well, one of the bestest when you're trying to end the perception of disorder is having police in high-crime areas with some pretty substantial police powers. This is why it appears that the NYPD has such racially lopsided enforcement. Officers are given stop-and-frisk powers and placed in high-crime, and therefore minority, areas to stave off the feeling of lawlessness. It's worked wonders and saved lives.

[Bigby]

What's "broken windows policing"?

The Broken Windows Theory basically says that places with a feeling of disorder will inevitably lead to more actual disorder. It is the tried-and-true tactic of changing the perception surrounding lawbreaking. It helped save New York City.

The name comes from an experiment where researched placed a car in two demographically and criminally  similar neighborhoods beside abandoned buildings. One abandoned building was still mostly intact, no graffiti, and maybe having windows intact or well-boarded up. The second building had graffiti and broken windows. One looked more orderly than the other. The car beside the broken windows was  broken into and vandalized at a much faster rate than the other.

May I ask why BLM opposes the policy? I am just wanting some clarification is all.

Well, one of the bestest when you're trying to end the perception of disorder is having police in high-crime areas with some pretty substantial police powers. This is why it appears that the NYPD has such racially lopsided enforcement. Officers are given stop-and-frisk powers and placed in high-crime, and therefore minority, areas to stave off the feeling of lawlessness. It's worked wonders and saved lives.

Ah. BLM opposes it because they feel it puts extra pressure on minority areas and makes said areas look bad, I assume?

[Blair]

I read something on politico about the author of broken glass policing saying that it's been taken to an extreme, and that basically it's been hijacked.

On the policy points they're actually a lot less radical than I expected. Community oversight of police has to be done in a good way. Ask anyone in the UK about the police and crime commissioners

[muon2]

On the policy points they're actually a lot less radical than I expected. Community oversight of police has to be done in a good way. Ask anyone in the UK about the police and crime commissioners

In most municipalities a police commission is appointed from community members. If there is an investigation into police behavior the results come before that commission for oversight. This system should work as BLM wants, but there are a couple of problem areas. One problem is that the commission is representative of the mayor and not the community and it becomes a rubber stamp for the internal investigations. Local elections are really the only cure if this problem is occurring.

Another problem is due to the size and organization of big city police forces. There still will be a commission, but typically just one for the whole city. That limits how representative it can be. Creating many smaller commissions might fix that, but it runs into the problem of the single hierarchical structure of the police force and union. How does one integrate many small commissions with a police force with a single command structure?